Electrically Powered Ultralight Aircraft

The thing that strikes me most in this thread is that so many people
just don't seem to understand...

1) weight

2) power

3) scale

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:39:44 -0400, Dana M. Hague
<d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net> wrote in
<ipj1c3p2ho1d4rksfte9gmj0qe3lcdru3a@********>:

>safety if the batteries are damaged in a crash is still an issue.

I would think the hazard somewhat less than gasoline.

Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:39:44 -0400, Dana M. Hague
> <d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net> wrote in
> <ipj1c3p2ho1d4rksfte9gmj0qe3lcdru3a@********>:
>
>> safety if the batteries are damaged in a crash is still an issue.
>
> I would think the hazard somewhat less than gasoline.

The battery can produce it's own ignition source.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:40:29 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
<wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in
<13c3c5g5h3l0i12@news.supernews.com>:

>Larry Dighera wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:39:44 -0400, Dana M. Hague
>> <d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net> wrote in
>> <ipj1c3p2ho1d4rksfte9gmj0qe3lcdru3a@********>:
>>
>>> safety if the batteries are damaged in a crash is still an issue.
>>
>> I would think the hazard somewhat less than gasoline.
>
>The battery can produce it's own ignition source.
>

You have a point. While a source of ignition (sparking wires, hot
muffler?) is required to ignite post-crash gasoline fumes, it would
take an un-fused short circuit or significant deformation of a battery
to potentially ignite a lithium battery. Granted, if the crash occurs
as a result of fuel exhaustion, there is little fire hazard, while the
lithium would always be aboard.

"Phil" <pjacobsma@************> wrote
>
> IF these can be made practical, they sound ideal for use in an
> airplane. They are light, and they can be shaped in just about any
> way to fit inside the airframe. Suppose they were integrated into the
> airframe and wings such that a large percentage of the airplane
> consisted of battery. It might be possible to get enough capacity
> there for a practical general aviation electric plane.
>
I can see the headlines, now.

Plane (or car) crashes, and the car's structure electrocutes the occupants.
<g>
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
> "Phil" <pjacobsma@************> wrote
>
>>IF these can be made practical, they sound ideal for use in an
>>airplane. They are light, and they can be shaped in just about any
>>way to fit inside the airframe. Suppose they were integrated into the
>>airframe and wings such that a large percentage of the airplane
>>consisted of battery. It might be possible to get enough capacity
>>there for a practical general aviation electric plane.
>>
>
> I can see the headlines, now.
>
> Plane (or car) crashes, and the car's structure electrocutes the occupants.
> <g>

LOL!

These paper batterise are light because they are so small.

By the time they make a battery will a few megawatts capacity, it's NOT
going to be all that light.

Lighter than Lead/Acid? Probably.

But light enough to fly? It might be a while...

On Aug 17, 2:19 pm, "Morgans" <jsmor...@charterJUNK.net> wrote:
> "Phil" <pjacob...@************> wrote
>
> > IF these can be made practical, they sound ideal for use in an
> > airplane. They are light, and they can be shaped in just about any
> > way to fit inside the airframe. Suppose they were integrated into the
> > airframe and wings such that a large percentage of the airplane
> > consisted of battery. It might be possible to get enough capacity
> > there for a practical general aviation electric plane.
>
> I can see the headlines, now.
>
> Plane (or car) crashes, and the car's structure electrocutes the occupants.
> <g>
> --
> Jim in NC

I know you're only half serious, but yes, that would have to be
considered. That's a risk in hybrid autos as well. EMTs and
firefighters are taking special training to handle the wrecks of these
cars. And the gasoline we use for our current airplanes poses the
risk of incinerating the occupants in a crash. I am not sure that an
electric plane would actually pose more risk. I would think that the
increased reliability of the propulsion system would decrease the risk
overall. How many people are killed every year in crashes caused by
engine failures?

On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Morgans" <jsmor...@charterJUNK.net> wrote:

> Nope, lots of problems to consider before we start considering an electric
> aircraft. Lots more than we can maybe even consider, at the moment, even if
> we were to figure out a way to make a practical airplane electric powered,
> don't you think?
> --
> Jim in NC

Oh, definitely. We are nowhere near a practical electric airplane.
But I think the potential is there (no pun intended), and I hope they
keep working on it.

On Aug 11, 9:47 pm, "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
> ...
> I've already made a cell holder for A123 Systems "A1" cells. That's the
> lithium phosphate nano cathode one used in 36V DeWalt power tools. You can
> buy a couple of new DeWalt 36V power packs for $50 or so on Ebay. Then,
> dismantle the pack to retrieve the individual cells. My pack will be 13.8
> volts and 11AH weighing 3 pounds. It will be the same size as a 7AH 12V SLA
> but weigh less than half as much.

Don't forget to add a brick of lead to the bottom of your
new battery pack, to keep the CG in the right place ;-)
Best Regards, Dave "YO"

On Aug 6, 3:16 pm, brtlmj <brt...@**********> wrote:
> > There is a fundamental problem with attempting to power an aircraft
> > with batteries: The propulsion system must not only move the vehicle
> > forward as it would with an automobile, but it must also
> > simultaneously maintain the aircraft's altitude;
>
That is why aircraft engines are so powerful and light; they're
depended-on to fight gravity as well as wind resistance.
Which leads us to the case of airships! They float. They don't
have to work to stay at altitude, they just hang there. Their engines
don't have to hold them up.
But, and it's a big but, since they are so big, they have more
wind resistance than airplanes. Since wind resistance is the log, or
cube? of wind speed, their hull-speeds are quite limited and their
engines remain relatively small as a result.
Enter the less-powerful electric motors! Enter solar photo-
voltaic cells! The big surface area of airships are ideal for mounting
solar arrays. And if you have a cloudy day and don't charge your
batteries up to snuff, well, you will not have to go to ground, as in
an airplane, because you are afloat in your element and you drift with
the breeze for awhile.
Words to the wise about the future of flight. High cheers from
Allen the airshipman