Solo diving

What interest me is that the vast majority of diving incents if not
all involve dives with buddy's so how good is the buddy system well
after nearly 30 years of diving I've not seen much evidence to support
it as being a safer way of diving.

By fare and away most id not all of my diving has been doe with a
buddy, I would say if you want to stay safe, prepare well, practice a
lot, dont reply on others, take the safe gear you need to do the dive
and the biggest thing is dive within you own capability, the one most
people forget..!

Ive done some great dives on my own over the years and I done most of
my favorite dives with a buddy, but dont knock it till you try it and
dont try it without preperation and a goos dose of common sense.

Tony

"Tony" <tonyhywels@m> wrote in message
news:1190210651.247778.324140@57g2000hsv. ...
> What interest me is that the vast majority of diving incents if not
> all involve dives with buddy's so how good is the buddy system well
> after nearly 30 years of diving I've not seen much evidence to support
> it as being a safer way of diving.

Hardly surprising given that most dives are done with buddies. If most
diving was solo, most incidents would involve solo diving. If msot diving
was done in foursomes, most incidents would involve foursomes. It is a very
easy thing to do, but you must not get misled into thinking that the
presence of a strong correlation equals a cause-and-effect relationship, it
may merely be the result of a coincidence.

You are correct, AFAIK, in stating that you have seen little evidence to
support buddy diving as being safer. OTOH is there any evidence to support
that it is risky? Is there any evidence supporting or refuting the safety of
solo diving either?

Ken

Your punctuation is awful, but I can't fault your logic.

Lee


"Tony" <tonyhywels@m> wrote in message
news:1190210651.247778.324140@57g2000hsv. ...
> What interest me is that the vast majority of diving incents if not
> all involve dives with buddy's so how good is the buddy system well
> after nearly 30 years of diving I've not seen much evidence to support
> it as being a safer way of diving.
>
> By fare and away most id not all of my diving has been doe with a
> buddy, I would say if you want to stay safe, prepare well, practice a
> lot, dont reply on others, take the safe gear you need to do the dive
> and the biggest thing is dive within you own capability, the one most
> people forget..!
>
> Ive done some great dives on my own over the years and I done most of
> my favorite dives with a buddy, but dont knock it till you try it and
> dont try it without preperation and a goos dose of common sense.
>
> Tony
>

Ken wrote

> You are correct, AFAIK, in stating that you have seen little evidence to
> support buddy diving as being safer.

Sure there is. It's not well organized, but there are plenty of examples.

> OTOH is there any evidence to support that it is risky?

Sure there is. It's not well organized either, but there are plenty of
examples.

> Is there any evidence supporting or refuting the safety of solo diving
> either?

Not that I know of. Problem with this is, there are no witnesses. Those that
survive problems, don't normally spread the word much. Those that don't
survive, don't ever spread the word. We're left to guess, either way.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <pleebell@> wrote in message
news:88gIi.49919$7e6.21890@bignews4.. ..
> Ken wrote
>
>> You are correct, AFAIK, in stating that you have seen little evidence to
>> support buddy diving as being safer.
>
> Sure there is. It's not well organized, but there are plenty of examples.

Examples are one-off anecdotes. In the rigorous world of scientific
evidence, the pluarl of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", NOT "data".


>
>> OTOH is there any evidence to support that it is risky?
>
> Sure there is. It's not well organized either, but there are plenty of
> examples.

See above

>
>> Is there any evidence supporting or refuting the safety of solo diving
>> either?
>
> Not that I know of. Problem with this is, there are no witnesses. Those
> that survive problems, don't normally spread the word much. Those that
> don't survive, don't ever spread the word. We're left to guess, either
> way.

Which brings us to the crux of the matter - we shall never know for sure.
For to know we would need to conduct a double-blind randomised study - and
it would be unethical and therefore impermissible to conduct a study where
we shall expect deaths a a function of the study.

This is an area then rife for argument, with people putting forward their
beliefs with religious fervour - and I choose my words purposely. Like
religion, when it comes to diving practice as regards solo / buddy diving in
the absence of evidence to prove the point one way or other, we cling dearly
to beliefs.

So argue away. It's a pointless argument that no-one can or will win.

Ken

Ken wrote

>> Ken wrote
>>> You are correct, AFAIK, in stating that you have seen little evidence to
>>> support buddy diving as being safer.
>>
>> Sure there is. It's not well organized, but there are plenty of examples.

> Examples are one-off anecdotes. In the rigorous world of scientific
> evidence, the pluarl of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", NOT "data".

Every emergency situation is one off. Testimony from those that helped and
those that were helped are either lies or truth. You are free to decide as
you please, but they are not anecdotal.

>>> OTOH is there any evidence to support that it is risky?
>>
>> Sure there is. It's not well organized either, but there are plenty of
>> examples.
>
> See above

Just as wrong. I have a scar to prove this one. There's nothing anecdotal
about it either.

>>> Is there any evidence supporting or refuting the safety of solo diving
>>> either?

>> Not that I know of. Problem with this is, there are no witnesses. Those
>> that survive problems, don't normally spread the word much. Those that
>> don't survive, don't ever spread the word. We're left to guess, either
>> way.

> Which brings us to the crux of the matter - we shall never know for sure.

You may not ever know for sure. I already do. There's no argument to be
made. I have no desire to convince you one way or the other, only to clearly
state that there is evidence both ways. Sometimes having a buddy makes a
dive safer and some times it makes it less safe. Calling it anecdotal does
not make it so, or false.

Lee

I've been diving solo more than with a buddy for about 2 years now and
hold the SDI certification (which is usually meaningless but in a few
places it makes a difference).

The reason is simple: Few divers are prepared to go where I go and do
what I do. I just finished up TDI's Extended Range course (their
first-level Trimix course). Suppose I dive on a wreck that's about 145'
deep on 25/40 and stay for 35 minutes with significant (150+ feet)
penetration. How many on the boat are prepared to follow at all? If
they chose to, could they do so safely (and without silting out the
interior of the wreck)? Would they have the same gas and the same deco
schedule?

Before that, how many were willing to do deco to start with and dive a
similar profile? How many would have actually planned the dive and its
gas requirements in advance--including a lost deco gas deco schedule,
which I regard as mandatory?

The number of people I know who have the amount of experience I do at
this sort of thing (and I'm not representing myself as an authority in
any sense here--I'm still a beginner) are few. The number available on
a particular weekend are fewer. The number who might just happen to be
on the same boat, who I am willing to trust *and* who are willing to
trust me, is usually zero. And when it's nonzero we often agree to dive
alone anyway because we're diving different mixes or with different
amounts of gas or and thus have different schedules, or because we have
different objectives for the dive. (Usually, this means I know them and
trust them but don't think I'm ready to follow them. ;-)

So my choices are to abandon the kind of dive I want to do and dive at
the lesser limits of the training and experience of someone else whom I
don't know, or dive outside my zone of training, experience, and comfort
to follow someone with fewer limits than I have or impose on myself. To
me, the choice is pretty clear. I'll stay cautious, plan carefully, and
dive the dives I want to dive as safely as I can plan them. A competent
buddy is a bonus I don't often get, but one I'll accept willingly if I
know them and have dived with them before.

--
John Eells (in the USA)

> it is an interesting question though. we're all aware that soloing is
> something of a dark art within the community . . .

It's treated like one, but the fact is, if you can dive without needing help
with a buddy swimming beside you, you an dive without needing help when
there's not one there.

> although it's more accepted now than it was five years ago. i can
> understand bsac's
> blanket ban on it - like most bodies of authority it tends to lag
> behind a little . . .

Solo diving once was very common. It became unpopular thanks to those that
think it is their job to take all risk out of everything we do. It's
becoming more popular mostly because people are starting to realize that,
with the right experience and planning, it's not a big deal.

> . . . and i think it would incredibly irresponsible to talk
> it up to inexperienced divers - but i do think that maybe we need to
> be a little more open about how much of it goes on in the uk.

I think it's pretty irresponsible to talk it up to anyone. It's a personal
decision, and needs to stay that way.

Lee

JRE wrote

> To me, the choice is pretty clear. I'll stay cautious, plan carefully,
> and dive the dives I want to dive as safely as I can plan them. A
> competent buddy is a bonus I don't often get, but one I'll accept
> willingly if I know them and have dived with them before.

It's a lot easier to find a compatible buddy if you accompany them to the
boat. The answer to a lack of available buddies is to bring your own with
you.

Lee

Lee Bell wrote:
> JRE wrote
>
>> To me, the choice is pretty clear. I'll stay cautious, plan carefully,
>> and dive the dives I want to dive as safely as I can plan them. A
>> competent buddy is a bonus I don't often get, but one I'll accept
>> willingly if I know them and have dived with them before.
>
> It's a lot easier to find a compatible buddy if you accompany them to the
> boat. The answer to a lack of available buddies is to bring your own with
> you.
>
> Lee
>
>

It's not for lack of trying...and I do get to dive with some of them
from time to time. But around here (upstate NY, far from any of the
Great Lakes) all decent diving involves several hours' driving and most
of it involves a hotel bill. Lining up schedules and such is the real
problem.

Tech divers only make up about 5% of the diving population according to
the latest numbers I've seen. Start with a small diving population,
take 5% of that, and then try to set up a weekend...not easy. They call
me, I call them, and sometimes it works out. Mostly, it doesn't.

John Eells