Buddy breathing.

Can anyone outline the correct method for buddy breathing (i.e 2 divers /
1reg)

> > Can anyone outline the correct method for buddy
> > breathing (i.e 2 divers / 1reg)
>
> In a word - DON'T
>

agree

> It is a pointless skill that is long past its sell-by date, to get into
the
> situation where BB is actually required you have to construct scenarios of
> multiple failures and/or poor planning and equipment configuration.
>

not convinced It is a skill that I have and dont plan to use.there might be
a slim chance of it helping me or someone else. It is not a skill that
should be taught to a novice diver.

> It was removed from BSAC training some time ago, the reason for that was
> there is a danger of it becoming a conditioned response in an OOA
situation.
> Trawl through the incident reports and you will find examples where people
> have died trying to BB whilst ignoring a perfectly functioning Octo/Pony
> AAS!
>
> BB has no place in ordinary recreational diving IMHO, that's a view that
> I've been arguing for years :-)
>
> Keith L
>
but Keith do you know how to do it ?
I cant supply a situation that would suggest using it would be the best
option.

David

> Neither can anybody, that's part of the problem :-) People seem pretty
> much
> in agreement Dave, BB is one of those quaint old traditions best consigned
> to the history books.

Right - Will kill BB as a skill!

I know you are right (with an octo, and pony) you have a number of options -
just seems like it is a skill that "you should be able to do" - even though
you will never need it!

"david" <im@fedup.com> wrote in message
news:cft21l$e2l$1@sparta....
> > > Can anyone outline the correct method for buddy
> > > breathing (i.e 2 divers / 1reg)
> >
> > In a word - DON'T
> >
>
> agree
>
> > It is a pointless skill that is long past its sell-by date, to get into
> the
> > situation where BB is actually required you have to construct scenarios
of
> > multiple failures and/or poor planning and equipment configuration.
> >
>
> not convinced It is a skill that I have and dont plan to use.there might
be
> a slim chance of it helping me or someone else. It is not a skill that
> should be taught to a novice diver.

It is one of those skills that should be kept floating around somewhere -
not as a tool for getting out of situations but as one of those
"watershipmanlyness" things - kind of like in the
PADI-DM-full-kit-swap-while-buddy-breathing test.

Jan made Dave and I (and the rest of the mob) do it on our RD course for a
bit of stress-load as most of us hadn't done it before. I suspect he was
looking to see how we coped with new situations (the "oops there goes my
buddies mask, oh dear I've run out of air" drills that followed seemed to
bear this out!).

At more advanced recreational levels (RD, Sports etc.) it is worthwhile in a
training capacity to get divers working together and thinking about each
other's needs in a stress-loaded situation, it also gives confidence about
being under water with no source of air in your gob.

It is not a skill to be taught to a novice as the skills you learn early in
anything are the ones that you go back to subconciously. Having only
recently had one experience of practising BB I reckon that it won't pop into
my head at a time of crisis. What will, I can't say until it happens, but
I'm pretty sure it my reg goes AWOL I'll just be swapping to an octo rather
than having it back after a couple of breaths!!

> > It was removed from BSAC training some time ago, the reason for that was
> > there is a danger of it becoming a conditioned response in an OOA
> situation.
> > Trawl through the incident reports and you will find examples where
people
> > have died trying to BB whilst ignoring a perfectly functioning Octo/Pony
> > AAS!
> >
> > BB has no place in ordinary recreational diving IMHO, that's a view that
> > I've been arguing for years :-)
> >
> > Keith L
> >
> but Keith do you know how to do it ?
> I cant supply a situation that would suggest using it would be the best
> option.

I think someone on Dnet came up with one feasable but stupendously low odds
situation where it might be the best option but that was for some technical
diving thingy rather than recreational. So in short, no, there are none!

CAS

david wrote:

> I cant supply a situation that would suggest using it would be the best
> option.

One of a pair deco diving freeflows their accelerated deco mix so
you just both deco on one cylinder. You could do your deco then
hand the mix over but if you have helium in your back gas you don't
want to go back onto helium however you don't want to leave your
buddy.

I've played it as a drill and it gets boring after a while but you can
keep it up all day once you get into the swing of it.

nigelH

"Gordon Henderson" <gordon@lion.drogon.net> wrote in message
> Then.... Once you have practiced it, go and read the BSAC incident
> reports and find out how many divers have made successfull ascents
> buddy breathing in a real out of air situation, and how many have died
> in the process.

How many have there been, actually? The incident reports from 1997 to 2003
are available online. Few fatalities were due to failed buddy breathing
attempts in those years. On the other hand, there were some that followed
AAS attempts. Noone knows how many successful BB or AAS ascents there were.

I agree that using an alternative air source is safer than trying to buddy
breathe, but I don't think the incident statistics (in the years leading up
to the ban by BSAC, at least) necessarily substantiate that opinion.

Philip Smith

> There are 2 errors in this description - both rather
> important.
>
> 1 The donor simply must retain control of the regulator -
> it is inevitable that the OOA will grab the reg. to attempt
> to get his breath back and cover his panic with the result
> that the donor will lose his air supply !! Net result
> disaster.

I would tend to say that the donor should hold the hose next to the reg. By
the time that you have two divers trying to hold the reg itself, trying to
get to the purge button when you discover that you've exhaled a little too
far can be a bit of an issue.

Iain

> It is one of those skills that should be kept floating around somewhere -
> not as a tool for getting out of situations but as one of those
> "watershipmanlyness" things - kind of like in the
> PADI-DM-full-kit-swap-while-buddy-breathing test.
>
> Jan made Dave and I (and the rest of the mob) do it on our RD course for a
> bit of stress-load as most of us hadn't done it before. I suspect he was
> looking to see how we coped with new situations (the "oops there goes my
> buddies mask, oh dear I've run out of air" drills that followed seemed to
> bear this out!).

I was taught this about 21 years ago when I started diving but then it was
one reg each and no choice.
things have changed. But it is still a skill worth knowing.
>
> At more advanced recreational levels (RD, Sports etc.) it is worthwhile in
a
> training capacity to get divers working together and thinking about each
> other's needs in a stress-loaded situation, it also gives confidence about
> being under water with no source of air in your gob.
>
This maybe the only valid augment in its favour. To create a stressful
situation
> CAS
>
>

And we all had a great time on our Rescue Course. :-)

David

> Anyone capable of doing this kind of dive should have no problems
> with buddy breathing. I completely agree with what JK, KeithL and
> others have said about the inadvisability of teaching buddy breathing
> at the stage where it becomes the automatic response to an emergency.
>
> Pete
This the point everyone agrees its should not be taught or as someone put it
:-

BB is one of those quaint old traditions best consigned to the history
books.

which I like the sentiment but how can anyone do it if no one teaches it.

David

Ps that make it a full circle I think :-)

> which I like the sentiment but how can anyone do it if no one teaches it.

Because if you have done more than a couple of dozen dives then you should
easily be able to figure out between you how to share one reg between two
people - its not rocket science (although that's apparently not as hard as
most people say...).
Give any experienced diver a buddy, one reg, and 20 minutes in a swimming
pool and they'll soon figure out how to breathe.

David