Simplified ticket purchase

Roland Perry wrote:
> It's 8.45am at Nottingham Station.
>
> rp: "I'd like an Offpeak return to London please - the £59 one"
<snip>
> If I'd got on the 9.07 with the £50.70 ticket whose fault would it have
> been?

Yours. It is the customer's responsibility to ensure that the ticket
they are travelling with is valid for that journey that they are
undertaking.

Jonathan

On 3 Oct, 14:37, "Paul Scott" <notvalidpmsc...@> wrote:
> <james...@.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:31e4627b-0d32-49fb-9513-55a57ab4e0e4@d70g2000hsc..com...
>
>
>
> >> On the Victoria Line, paying by Oyster.
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > You cant do that with a route not underground ticket as it is not a
> > valid route.  It does not matter that you pay extra the route is not
> > permitted so you cant do it !
>
> Yes he can - he means he is making a separate journey on the Victoria line.
> The fact it may duplicate his 'not underground' ticket just means Roland is
> possibly paying twice for his own convenience.
>
> Paul

However, the 'Not Underground' ticket is unlikely to be valid between
Vauxhall and Wimbledon. It is almost certainly only valid via the
Thameslink route, changing onto SWT at Wimbledon.

In message
<3e7d2927-f1fa-41eb-b438-11dcb405d2f8@t65g2000hsf..com>, at
09:07:56 on Fri, 3 Oct 2008, Matthew Dickinson
<matthewleedickinson@> remarked:
>However, the 'Not Underground' ticket is unlikely to be valid between
>Vauxhall and Wimbledon. It is almost certainly only valid via the
>Thameslink route, changing onto SWT at Wimbledon.

The 'not underground' ticket is really from London Terminals according
to the person who sold it to me (despite it saying "St Pancras"). Of
course, if people are suggesting I should have rejected it and got one
marked specifically "London Terminals" (or even better "Vauxhall") then
that's what I can do next time. It's this layer of confusion that we
need to sort out! (The price will be the same, incidentally).
--
Roland Perry

In message
<3e7d2927-f1fa-41eb-b438-11dcb405d2f8@t65g2000hsf..com>, at
09:07:56 on Fri, 3 Oct 2008, Matthew Dickinson
<matthewleedickinson@> remarked:
>However, the 'Not Underground' ticket is unlikely to be valid between
>Vauxhall and Wimbledon.

Well, the barriers wouldn't let me out at Vauxhall, but the attendant
did (admittedly without actually looking closely at the ticket).

However, it was all in vain as the Victoria Line was suspended (broken
down train). So back upstairs.

The barriers didn't take my PAYG Oyster (apparently they only accept
season tickets loaded on Oyster) and SWT wasn't especially worried about
the tube being closed "that's a different company". But the barrier guy
did let me back in and I completed my journey to Waterloo.

[Subsidiary question: would the wild goose chase down to the tube ticket
hall count strictly as a "break of journey", or is it still the same
station - even if operated by TfL].

That added ten minutes, then changing at Leicester Square (rather than
Oxford Circus) added some more. Missed the 19.30 by miles, and joined
the extensive queue for the ticket barrier for the 19.55 at around 19.45

Queue went quicker than I expected, but in the rush to get on I didn't
notice that the train was in reverse formation, so heading for the front
wasn't the wisest move. Ended up crammed in the vestibule of coach "F"
(the FC coach adjacent to Standard) with eight other travellers and
their luggage. The vestibule next door was just as full, and the aisle
of the next coach was full of standees.

Fifteen minutes into the trip the train manager moved all the FC
passengers from coach F to the two carriages beyond (there's far too
much FC in pretty much all these Meridians) and declassified it.
Everyone gratefully dashed in.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:22:28 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message
><3e7d2927-f1fa-41eb-b438-11dcb405d2f8@t65g2000hsf..com>, at
>09:07:56 on Fri, 3 Oct 2008, Matthew Dickinson
><matthewleedickinson@> remarked:
>>However, the 'Not Underground' ticket is unlikely to be valid between
>>Vauxhall and Wimbledon.
>
>Well, the barriers wouldn't let me out at Vauxhall, but the attendant
>did (admittedly without actually looking closely at the ticket).

Which gates? - the SWT ones? If so that doesn't make much sense.

>However, it was all in vain as the Victoria Line was suspended (broken
>down train). So back upstairs.
>
>The barriers didn't take my PAYG Oyster (apparently they only accept
>season tickets loaded on Oyster) and SWT wasn't especially worried about
>the tube being closed "that's a different company". But the barrier guy
>did let me back in and I completed my journey to Waterloo.

Correct - PAYG is not valid on any SWT service even Vauxhall to Waterloo
within Zone 1.

>[Subsidiary question: would the wild goose chase down to the tube ticket
>hall count strictly as a "break of journey", or is it still the same
>station - even if operated by TfL].

Completely separate stations and operations. You leave one paid area,
enter the "street" and then re-enter another paid area. It's not an out
of station interchange as there are not the same fares regimes behind
each gateline. This will almost certainly change when PAYG is accepted
as evidenced by what happens on FGW at Paddington with say Ealing
Broadway - Victoria journeys being charged as a through 3 zone journey
rather than 2 separate charges.

>That added ten minutes, then changing at Leicester Square (rather than
>Oxford Circus) added some more. Missed the 19.30 by miles, and joined
>the extensive queue for the ticket barrier for the 19.55 at around 19.45
>
>Queue went quicker than I expected, but in the rush to get on I didn't
>notice that the train was in reverse formation, so heading for the front
>wasn't the wisest move. Ended up crammed in the vestibule of coach "F"
>(the FC coach adjacent to Standard) with eight other travellers and
>their luggage. The vestibule next door was just as full, and the aisle
>of the next coach was full of standees.

Sounds horrendous.

>Fifteen minutes into the trip the train manager moved all the FC
>passengers from coach F to the two carriages beyond (there's far too
>much FC in pretty much all these Meridians) and declassified it.
>Everyone gratefully dashed in.

Sounds like common sense.
--
Paul C

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> >>[Subsidiary question: would the wild goose chase down to the tube ticket
> >>hall count strictly as a "break of journey", or is it still the same
> >>station - even if operated by TfL].
>
> I was thinking more about "BoJ on a Saver" kind of issues, rather than
> amalgamating Oyster fares.

I can't see how it would, otherwise a Saver from Nottingham to Weymouth or
vice versa wouldn't be valid via Vauxhall on the outward because of the
no-BoJ rule. If Vauxhall is a London Terminal and the Saver allows you tube
between London Terminals on Permitted Routes then it's perfectly fine.

At a valid interchange you can wild goose chase as much as you like, it's
still on railway premises (FSVO 'railway premises').

Theo

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qp7rvJEARp5IFAUB@perry.co.uk...

>>>Fifteen minutes into the trip the train manager moved all the FC
>>>passengers from coach F to the two carriages beyond (there's far too
>>>much FC in pretty much all these Meridians) and declassified it.
>>>Everyone gratefully dashed in.
>>
>>Sounds like common sense.
>
> It generated a lot of goodwill.

.. amongst the passengers in 1st Class?

--
Walter Mann

In message <1223102631.23459.0@proxy00.news.clara.net>, at 07:41:00 on
Sat, 4 Oct 2008, Walter Mann <unsol@wjm.clara.net> remarked:
>>>>Fifteen minutes into the trip the train manager moved all the FC
>>>>passengers from coach F to the two carriages beyond (there's far too
>>>>much FC in pretty much all these Meridians) and declassified it.
>>>>Everyone gratefully dashed in.
>>>
>>>Sounds like common sense.
>>
>> It generated a lot of goodwill.
>
> .. amongst the passengers in 1st Class?

They were all moved into the front two carriages, which presumably had
plenty of space for them. I don't know what was said to them, whether it
was about the overcrowding in Standard, or they could have just said "we
won't be providing catering in all three FC carriages this evening", and
thereby persuade them to move. The tannoy announcement about
declassifying did mention that it was only a seat, and no catering.

What they really need, of course, are trains with more than three and
half coaches of Standard accommodation (four coaches less a shop and
less the bike store/crumple zone). If they put on a 4-car 158 or similar
for such a service everyone would be aghast, but a 7-car Meridian
*looks* like it's got more standard accommodation in it than it actually
has.
--
Roland Perry

Jonathan Stott <jms35@kent.ac.uk> writes:

> Roland Perry wrote:
>> It's 8.45am at Nottingham Station.
>>
>> rp: "I'd like an Offpeak return to London please - the £59 one"
> <snip>
>> If I'd got on the 9.07 with the £50.70 ticket whose fault would it have
>> been?
>
> Yours. It is the customer's responsibility to ensure that the ticket
> they are travelling with is valid for that journey that they are
> undertaking.

But would this not also fall foul of the Sale of Goods and Services act
in that the ticket supplied did not meet the requirements explicitly
stated by the customer at the time of purchase?