Steam engines - tender first?

Seeing a tender first engine today on the GCR had me wondering about
such practices in BR/pre-BR days.
I know it was a regular for branch lines to have an engine running
tender first for one way of the route, but was it common, or rather, not
unknown, for main line passenger trains to run tender first?
I cant really recall seeing any pictures of express trains running this
way, but I'm sure there must be instances of it happening.
Where there restrictions on such running?

Ta
Alan.
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"A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message
news:1imt1cu.b3awxw8p2wwsN%alan@darkroom.+.com...
> Seeing a tender first engine today on the GCR had me wondering about
> such practices in BR/pre-BR days.
> I know it was a regular for branch lines to have an engine running
> tender first for one way of the route, but was it common, or rather, not
> unknown, for main line passenger trains to run tender first?
> I cant really recall seeing any pictures of express trains running this
> way, but I'm sure there must be instances of it happening.
> Where there restrictions on such running?
>
> Ta
> Alan.


Apart from emergencies (failures etc.), I think they tried to avoid long
distance running tender first. If it happens now, there is a lower speed
limit for running tender first than for running chimney fiirst - not certain
if the same applied pre-1968, but I wouldn't be surprised - the driver's
view of the running lines is often hindered by the shape of the tender,
(except for some BR standard & LMS designs in which the tender had "cutaway"
sides (i.e. narrower at the top.).

Bevan

> the driver's
> view of the running lines is often hindered by the shape of the tender,
> (except for some BR standard & LMS designs in which the tender had "cutaway"
> sides (i.e. narrower at the top.).
>
> Bevan


To say nothing of being frozen to the bone, soaked by rain or covered
in coal dust running tender first depending on the weather. It's not
surprising that crews preferred to run chimney first given a chance to
turn the loco.

Peter

>
>
> To say nothing of being frozen to the bone, soaked by rain or covered
> in coal dust running tender first depending on the weather. It's not
> surprising that crews preferred to run chimney first given a chance to
> turn the loco.
>
> Peter

I remember seeing in inclement weather engines running tender first with a
tarpaulin attached to the cab roof and to the tendsr thus creating a more
friendly environment for the footplatemen. This must have made it difficult
for the driver who probably had to poke his head out from time to time to
observe the signals.Those were the days of real trains when men were men!

MJW

"Bevan Price" <meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> wrote
>
> Apart from emergencies (failures etc.), I think they tried to avoid long
> distance running tender first. If it happens now, there is a lower speed
> limit for running tender first than for running chimney fiirst - not
certain
> if the same applied pre-1968, but I wouldn't be surprised - the driver's
> view of the running lines is often hindered by the shape of the tender,
> (except for some BR standard & LMS designs in which the tender had
"cutaway"
> sides (i.e. narrower at the top.).
>
Even then, particularly on railways where the driver's position was on the
left, signals were (supposed to be) sited to give the driver a clear view.
Tender first the controls were on the right (in the direction of running)
so, even if the tender was cutaway the driver would not be in the optimum
position for signal sighting.

Peter

"Bevan Price" <meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> wrote in message
news:1220636165.30037.0@proxy01.news.clara.net...
>
> "A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message
> news:1imt1cu.b3awxw8p2wwsN%alan@darkroom.+.com...
>> Seeing a tender first engine today on the GCR had me wondering about
>> such practices in BR/pre-BR days.
>> I know it was a regular for branch lines to have an engine running
>> tender first for one way of the route, but was it common, or rather, not
>> unknown, for main line passenger trains to run tender first?
>> I cant really recall seeing any pictures of express trains running this
>> way, but I'm sure there must be instances of it happening.
>> Where there restrictions on such running?
>>
>> Ta
>> Alan.
>
>
> Apart from emergencies (failures etc.), I think they tried to avoid long
> distance running tender first. If it happens now, there is a lower speed
> limit for running tender first than for running chimney fiirst - not
> certain if the same applied pre-1968, but I wouldn't be surprised - the
> driver's view of the running lines is often hindered by the shape of the
> tender, (except for some BR standard & LMS designs in which the tender had
> "cutaway" sides (i.e. narrower at the top.).
>
> Bevan
>
Cutaway tenders ? Are you thinking of tank engines with sloping/cutaway
bunkers. Of course they would be bunker first not tender :-)

CHeers,
Simon

"Andrew Clarke" <ajc@cts.canberra.edu.au> wrote in message
news:6b27d1a9-9dfc-408b-811f-9e5fc6d2e968@b30g2000prf..com...
On Sep 7, 8:33 pm, a...@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
>
>> Smith, talking about the Glasgow & South Western railway, mentions engine
>> crews working from the side plating when running tender first in really
>> bad conditions, handling the controls around the side of the (minimal,
>> Stirling-pattern) cab or thought the spectacle plate portholes.
>
>The closest I can come to this is a photo of the fireman of a NSW
>train engine who'd made his way down the running plate of his own
>"Standard Goods" and climbed onto the top of the (leading) banking
>engine's tender to borrow a can of engine oil while the train was in
>motion. Under extreme conditions oil levels easily ran low and on long
>steep gradients it was not advisable to stop a heavy freight as it
>might have been a problem to restart it again ...

The 1913 Ais Gill accident was caused, at least in part, by the driver going
round the framing to oil the axle boxes, and in so doing missed the
Mallerstang signals.The inspecting officer remarked that it was no longer
necessary to do this, as lubricators were fitted, but old traditions die
hard.

Peter