Kingfisher Railtours - refunds?

I booked and paid for the 'end of steam' anniversary railtour which
should have taken place on Aug 3. But this was cancelled; with no
alternative date yet announced. The Kingfisher Railtour website states
that in the "unlikely event of a cancellation" that a full refund
would be given. I'm still waiting for mine. Has anyone else had
problems obtaining refunds from operators of cancelled railtours?
Cancellations are a depressingly frequent occurrance in the steam
train rail tour scene which is why I rarely book for one now-a-days.
Even if a refund is available for the actual tour, refunds on National
Rail services to/from the departure/arrival stations and bed &
breakfast is impossible to obtain. I think the steam (etc.) rail tour
scene really has to tighten up its act w.r.t. sudden cancellations.
Chris B.

On 4 Sep, 13:33, Tony Polson <docnews2...@> wrote:
> CJB <chrisjbr...@> wrote:
>
> >Cancellations are a depressingly frequent occurrance in the steam
> >train rail tour scene which is why I rarely book for one now-a-days.
> >Even if a refund is available for the actual tour, refunds on National
> >Rail services to/from the departure/arrival stations and bed &
> >breakfast is impossible to obtain.
>
> Surely it is up to you to hold a travel insurance policy that covers
> you against these consequential losses?

I have seen travel insurance which provided cover if you were /
prevented/ from travelling - by illness, bereavement or other force
majeure. I have never seen a policy which covered you if you just
decided not to go, and "I decided not to go to Bournemouth because the
steam train I wanted to travel on wasn't running" is really no
different from "I decided not to go to Bournemouth because the weather
forecast was bad."

In short, I don't think there is any chance of getting a policy for
this case. Incidentally, they are not "consequential losses" - they
are costs which would have been incurred if the steam special was
running, and are no greater as a result of the cancellation.

> You are clearly aware of your liability for them, so why don't you
> just cover yourself rather than moan about them on here?

Good old Tony.

I think he is making a perfectly reasonable point: that short notice
cancellation of specials makes it impossible to get refunds from
advance purchase NR tickets or accommodation deposits.

Ian

"Tony Polson" <docnews2011@> wrote in message
news:ealvb4t2g3r014hm9f0oo5cm1c0cv8n9jd@...
> CJB <chrisjbrady@> wrote:
>>
>>Cancellations are a depressingly frequent occurrance in the steam
>>train rail tour scene which is why I rarely book for one now-a-days.
>>Even if a refund is available for the actual tour, refunds on National
>>Rail services to/from the departure/arrival stations and bed &
>>breakfast is impossible to obtain.
>
>
> Surely it is up to you to hold a travel insurance policy that covers
> you against these consequential losses?

Not needed if you are promised a full refund

>
> You are clearly aware of your liability for them, so why don't you
> just cover yourself rather than moan about them on here?

Didn't come across as moaning to me (but the reply certainly did)

Perhaps the real problem here is the high cost of operating charter trains,
the uncertainties of routing, pathing and traction provision and the
lowering amount of disposable income that travellers have available.

It all adds up to an uncertain future for railtours.
>

On 4 Sep, 17:26, Tony Polson <docnews2...@> wrote:

> There isn't a railtour company in the UK that would cover you for
> consequential losses.  That's something you have to insure against.

These. Are. Not. Consequential. Losses.

Consequential losses are things like "I missed my flight and had to
buy an expensive replacement ticket" or "I got to the library after it
closed and had to pay a 35p fine the next day". They are losses which
arise as a consequence of the original loss.

In this case the original poster has suffered no loss beyond not being
able to travel on the steam train. He can still take the trains he
booked to get to and from the excursion and he can still stay in the
hotel he booked.

There. Is. No. Loss.

Ian

> Has anyone else had
> problems obtaining refunds from operators of cancelled railtours?

Yes, I had a problem with Kingfisher a couple of years ago, had to go to
my credit card company and they eventually refunded me, it was a hassle
as I'd paid in August for a December trip (which was only cancelled the
week before due to lack of bookings), they couldn't understand why I
waited so long before applying for a refund...

I will never book a trip with Kingfisher again!

On the other hand Spitfire have always been great with refunds - although
I've not actually had a trip run with them yet...

Pathfinder have been fine too on the rare occasions they've had to cancel
or reschedule.

-Alan

"Tony Polson" <docnews2011@> wrote in message
news:lu20c4l7annjgp53cp546lufq8bam28mia@...
> "Andy Flowers" <aflowers@girdlers.> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tony Polson" <docnews2011@> wrote in message
>>news:ealvb4t2g3r014hm9f0oo5cm1c0cv8n9jd@. ..
>>> CJB <chrisjbrady@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Cancellations are a depressingly frequent occurrance in the steam
>>>>train rail tour scene which is why I rarely book for one now-a-days.
>>>>Even if a refund is available for the actual tour, refunds on National
>>>>Rail services to/from the departure/arrival stations and bed &
>>>>breakfast is impossible to obtain.
>>>
>>>
>>> Surely it is up to you to hold a travel insurance policy that covers
>>> you against these consequential losses?
>>
>>Not needed if you are promised a full refund
>
>
>
> That is astonishingly naive, even for you.

Amazing - you don't even know who I am!

I might as well retaliate - you would say that, you've got three heads!
>
> There isn't a railtour company in the UK that would cover you for
> consequential losses. That's something you have to insure against.
>
I've got it now

Tony Polson is just a piece of software - some sort of random argument
generator perhaps

Anyway, back to the relevance

If they advertise a full refund they should give one

They didn't advertise consequential losses (don't think anyone said that)

Not been involved in an argument with a program before (new territory for
me) :)


>

On 5 Sep, 00:36, Tony Polson <docnews2...@> wrote:

> It was the OP who moaned that they won't reimburse him for
> consequential losses. I pointed out that this was quite normal and
> that almost any travel insurance policy would cover them, so why not
> take out such a policy and stop moaning, as the latter would not
> achieve anything.

There. Were. No. Consequential. Losses.

No. Travel. Insurance. Would. Cover. This.

Ian

Tony Polson wrote:
> "Andy Flowers" <aflowers@girdlers.> wrote:
>> If they advertise a full refund they should give one
>
>
> And they do, or will.
>

But they haven't.

>
>> They didn't advertise consequential losses (don't think anyone said that)
>
>
> It was the OP who moaned that they won't reimburse him for
> consequential losses. I pointed out that this was quite normal and
> that almost any travel insurance policy would cover them, so why not
> take out such a policy and stop moaning, as the latter would not
> achieve anything.
>

A journey on a railtour could be seen as
'entertainment' rather than travel. Is there a travel
insurance polict that will pay back my fare and hotel
costs if I book train tickets and hotel to see a
concert and the concert is cancelled?

Charlie

In message
<e677211c-e626-4daa-ae05-c687efc5eeb5@i24g2000prf..com>, at
10:52:18 on Thu, 4 Sep 2008, The Real Doctor <ian.groups@>
remarked:
>> There isn't a railtour company in the UK that would cover you for
>> consequential losses.  That's something you have to insure against.
>
>These. Are. Not. Consequential. Losses.

Worse than that, they are not caused by the failure of UK-based public
transport to connect with an international journey (many polices even
restrict that to "international flight", but some allow ferries and
presumably E* as well).
--
Roland Perry

On Sep 5, 7:06 am, The Real Doctor <ian.gro...@> wrote:
> On 5 Sep, 00:36, Tony Polson <docnews2...@> wrote:
>
> > It was the OP who moaned that they won't reimburse him for
> > consequential losses.  I pointed out that this was quite normal and
> > that almost any travel insurance policy would cover them, so why not
> > take out such a policy and stop moaning, as the latter would not
> > achieve anything.
>
> There. Were. No. Consequential. Losses.
>
> No. Travel. Insurance. Would. Cover. This.
>
> Ian

Not so. I was the OP.

What I was complaining about was Kingfisher not refunding the cost of
the original cancelled tour despite an announcement on their website
stating that they would. I was then simply asking if anyone else had
had problems obtaining refunds for similarly cancelled tours.

Then I widened my point by opining that sudden cancellations such as
mine give the railtour industry a bad name because even if a company
does refund the cost of a cancelled tour, the losses to the customer
can very likely also include pre-booked National Rail journeys to/from
the departure/arrival pouint(s), and also associated accommodation
costs.

Chris B.