London Inner and Outer Suburban Territory

Particular radial routes, service groups and types of rolling stock to/
from London are sometimes designated as "Inner Suburban" or "Outer
Suburban". Is it normally clear-cut where Inner Suburbanland finishes
and Outer Suburbanland starts and ultimately gives way to Non
Suburbanland?

--
gordon

<tshanazt@> wrote in message
news:f6c9e608-ee4f-4cf8-a3ea-7344627c6c7d@t54g2000hsg..com...
> Particular radial routes, service groups and types of rolling stock to/
> from London are sometimes designated as "Inner Suburban" or "Outer
> Suburban". Is it normally clear-cut where Inner Suburbanland finishes
> and Outer Suburbanland starts and ultimately gives way to Non
> Suburbanland?

I always thought it was odd that the Quail Railway Track Diagrams for
Ireland (1st Edition 1995) proclaimed that Newry was the "Dublin Outer
Suburban Limit" - Newry being a place in a different country and with no
suburban service.

tshanazt@ wrote:
> Particular radial routes, service groups and types of rolling stock to/
> from London are sometimes designated as "Inner Suburban" or "Outer
> Suburban". Is it normally clear-cut where Inner Suburbanland finishes
> and Outer Suburbanland starts and ultimately gives way to Non
> Suburbanland?
>
> --
> gordon

One obvious route is the GE out of Liverpool Street

Inner Surburban services from Liverpool Street to Shenfield
Outer Surburban services from Shenfield to Southend Vic and Ipswich
(plus branches)
Non Surburban everything north of Ipswich

On Aug 31, 1:05 pm, John B <s...@johnband.org> wrote:
> On 30 Aug, 22:55, "tshan...@" <tshan...@> wrote:
>
> > Particular radial routes, service groups and types of rolling stock to/
> > from London are sometimes designated as "Inner Suburban" or "Outer
> > Suburban". Is it normally clear-cut where Inner Suburbanland finishes
> > and Outer Suburbanland starts and ultimately gives way to Non
> > Suburbanland?
>
> It's pretty clear on the ECML, with Inner Suburbia operated by 313s to
> (mostly) Moorgate and Outer Suburbia operated by 317s and 365s to
> King's Cross.
>
> It's pretty clear on the WCML, with Inner Suburbia operated by London
> Overground 313s/508s and Outer Suburbia operated by London Midland
> 321s and 350s.
>
> And it's pretty clear on SWT, with Inner Suburbia operated by 455s and
> Outer Suburbia operated by 450s and 458s (with 159s and 444s for
> intercity).

It used to be 455s on inner suburban on both SWT and South Central,
but in both cases there are now 100 mph air-conditioned units running
on local all-stations services, like Hounslow.

I think it's not as clear on any of the southern franchises as it is
north of the Thames. It's probably down to history, where Inter City
was a set of routes marketed in a particular way, and left out
anything south of the Thames apart from Gatwick Express, even if it
went between cities.

On Aug 31, 1:37 pm, MIG <googles...@doreenbird.co.uk> wrote:

> I think it's not as clear on any of the southern franchises as it is
> north of the Thames.  It's probably down to history,


Or possibly because ''Southern Electric'' main lines tended to a
pattern of 3 types of train - fast, semi-fast, and slow. Its all
blurred as a 63 Waterloo - Basingstoke ''outer suburban'' had the same
stopping pattern and stock as a 93 Waterloo - Bournemouth ''slow''.

A west Coastway between Brighton and Worthing (to use todays
terminology) is more ''inner suburban'' in some respects than a
Kingston loop is.

> anything south of the Thames apart from Gatwick Express, even if it
> went between cities.

And Gatwick is not a city either :o)

--
Nick

John B wrote:
> On 30 Aug, 22:55, "tshan...@" <tshan...@> wrote:
>>Particular radial routes, service groups and types of rolling stock to/
>>from London are sometimes designated as "Inner Suburban" or "Outer
>>Suburban". Is it normally clear-cut where Inner Suburbanland finishes
>>and Outer Suburbanland starts and ultimately gives way to Non
>>Suburbanland?
>
> It's pretty clear on the ECML, with Inner Suburbia operated by 313s to
> (mostly) Moorgate and Outer Suburbia operated by 317s and 365s to
> King's Cross.

I'm not sure I'd be that keen on calling the Fen Line suburban (though
there are regular London commuters, but then there are from places like
Swindon and Grantham, which are not really suburban either). For the
ECML, I'd call WGC and Hertford the limit of inner suburban, with
Cambridge and Peterborough the limit of outer suburban, though
Peterborough itself is a long way out. Not quite coincident with the
313 = innner and 317/365 = outer, as 313s regularly penetrate as far as
Letchworth.

> It's pretty clear on the WCML, with Inner Suburbia operated by London
> Overground 313s/508s and Outer Suburbia operated by London Midland
> 321s and 350s.
>
> And it's pretty clear on SWT, with Inner Suburbia operated by 455s and
> Outer Suburbia operated by 450s and 458s (with 159s and 444s for
> intercity).

Another awkward one is the North Kent lines. I'd have called Dartford
the end of inner suburban, with Dartford - Gravesend - Medway towns as
outter suburban, though before the comming of the 376s they were all run
with a common pool of trains.

Robin