Invalid Ticket issued by First Scotrail

On Aug 28, 9:18 pm, Peter Alexander <p.alexan...@virgin.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:10:32 -0700 (PDT), collybs
>
> I need to see the evidence in writing!
>
>
Go to any journey palnner on the internet (National Rail, Virgin, NXEC
etc.......- put your journey times in & look at the reult - it shows
your ticket as valid.

Peter

Peter Alexander wrote:

> Ah but the original poster - moi - did not come up the Clyde on a
> bike. I phoned Virgin's Customer Services in Birmingham who said it
> isn't valid

Assuming you mentioned that it was the return part of a
Saver when asking, that is incompetence on their part.

> checked with the Virgin desk at Piccadilly who said they
> weren't sure, though thought it might be, but to check with the TM on
> the day - bad plan.

"Thought it might be?" Someone in that position should
never give such an answer. But you don't surprise me.

Charlie

> Ah but the original poster - moi - did not come up the Clyde on a
> bike. I phoned Virgin's Customer Services in Birmingham who said it
> isn't valid, checked with the Virgin desk at Piccadilly who said they
> weren't sure, though thought it might be, but to check with the TM on
> the day - bad plan.
>
Did you ask "Is a saver valid on the 0705 from Manchester - London" or
did you ask "Is a return portion of a London - Manchester saver valid
on the 0705 Manchester - Euston" - as there is a lot of difference

I have just phoned Virgin Trains and they confirm it is valid for the
0705 return service



Peter

Peter Alexander wrote:

> Except that no-one seems all that sure. I'd like to see where this is
> written down.

It already is, on a small piece of cardboard with red
margins at the top and bottom!

> I want you to be right. It will save us a fortune!

Maybe someone who has a London Area fares manual and a
scanner (fares *from* London are not listed in the
North West volume, so it's no good asking your friendly
local Northern Rail station person, as I would normally
do - and that's probably also why the VT people in
Manchester struggled) could help you?

Someone here has already looked this up for you, of
course, and I feel confident he is right.

Charlie

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <cLDtk.123715$gM4.45030@newsfe25.ams2>, at 21:19:28 on Thu,
> 28 Aug 2008, Charlie Hulme <info@davenportstation.org.uk> remarked:
>> I have never heard of anyone with a valid reservation being bullied by
>> the train manager. Does this happen?
>
> The lady who joined a GNER train late at York on an AP ticket would have
> had reservations.

Not - strictly speaking - 'valid' ones, though?

Charlie

"Peter Alexander" <p.alexander@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:n20eb4depdhgbishb6v4v7pa8a90gd45q7@...
>
> I agree entirely Jon, though in this case the clerk was a web site.

Sorry, I missed that - and it makes all the difference.

Regards

Jonathan

"Peter Alexander" <p.alexander@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:073eb4l9h172fsnpjr2831f66s821jqb0m@...
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:37:48 -0700 (PDT), collybs
> <peter@collybs.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> Ah but the original poster - moi - did not come up the Clyde on a
>>> bike. I phoned Virgin's Customer Services in Birmingham who said it
>>> isn't valid, checked with the Virgin desk at Piccadilly who said they
>>> weren't sure, though thought it might be, but to check with the TM on
>>> the day - bad plan.
>>>
>>Did you ask "Is a saver valid on the 0705 from Manchester - London" or
>>did you ask "Is a return portion of a London - Manchester saver valid
>>on the 0705 Manchester - Euston" - as there is a lot of difference
>>
>>I have just phoned Virgin Trains and they confirm it is valid for the
>>0705 return service
>>
>>
>>
>>Peter
>
> Now that is interesting. I may well have done it wrong in that case or
> rather, I may wasn't specific enough. If so I am happy to admit it.
>
> Though this from the Virgin web sites leaves me with doubt:
>
>
> Saver
> Ticket Type? Standard
> What do I get for my money? Is a lower cost ticket
> offering great value for money. If you can travel outside morning and
> afternoon peak times, you can take advantage of this fare. Railcard
> holders receive the normal discount on top of the already great value
> ticket, and as an additional benefit, can travel on any train without
> restriction!
> What day can I travel? Any
> What train can I travel on? Off-peak Services

What appears to be lacking from this paragraph, from this web-page, and
AFAICS, from anywhere else on Virgin's website, is a precise and clear
definition of 'off-peak services'.
>
> I'll ring them again tomorrow and ask in an exact way. Will let you
> know.
>
> Thanks guys
>
>
>
> Peter

Envo

On Aug 28, 11:20 pm, Mizter T <mizte...@> wrote:
> Though I suppose we now live in a somewhat different world where one
> can easily check prices and buy tickets online for any journey. I'm
> not sure of how many people do purposefully buy a Saver Return just so
> as to make use of the less restricted return portion. Nowadays doing
> this is relatively easy - one can use the (misleadingly named) 'ticket-
> on-departure' system to collect pre-ordered tickets from ticket
> machines at many stations across the UK just 2 hours after purchase.


My brother has to travel from Coventry to London and back once or
twice a week at 12 hours notice. He has to travel out before 0715 to
reach London at the required time. A long time ago he worked out that
the return half of a London - Coventry saver was valid on early
morning journeys so he bought a single one day instead of a return and
ever since has used London - Coventry saver tickets for his journey.


Peter

In message
<6097ada9-9a94-4cab-b06b-20d599500a34@a70g2000hsh..com>, at
14:17:14 on Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Mizter T <mizter.t@> remarked:

>> Savers are available for any valid train, although I agree that the
>> website does make it look like they are available for just the one they
>> issue the reservation for.
>
>This is IME an incredibly common confusion - whilst in general the
>massed ranks of uk.railway may well be au fait with what a Saver
>ticket is, to the lay man it does sound like it could be the name of
>an advance purchase ticket - Value, Advance, Saver, SuperSaver,
>Firstminute Fare etc all sound much of a muchness.
>
>I've come across so many people who are adamant that their Saver
>ticket bought online is only good for a specific train (i.e. the one
>on which a reservation was issued for), and despite my earnest attempt
>to dissuade them of this notion some still just don't believe it.

Try this next time: a ticket tied to a specific train will say "Valid
only with reservation(s)" in the top lefthand corner. A ticket without
those words does not have that restriction.

>In this sense I think the ticket names simplification is a useful
>exercise - the issue of course is whether this simplification
>camouflages the introduction of further restrictions as it appears
>might be the case.

Camouflage, or as it's know in the marketing industry "confusion
pricing" would seem to be alive and well in the new ticketing schemes.
The inability to discover what "Offpeak" means at the point of sale is
criminal. Also many tickets are having their "valid hours" eroded in
separate schemes to crank up fares.

>> It's a bit complicated if you buy anything other than an "Anytime"
>> (anytrain) ticket.
>>
>And - depending upon the route - man can that be pricey! So pricey in
>fact that it's just not a viable option for many.

I agree. It's not plausible for me to spend £125 on a return ticket to
London unless someone else is paying.
--
Roland Perry

In message
<7c1cb16d-6de0-4775-9c17-4b960d247ab1@k37g2000hsf..com>, at
15:20:46 on Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Mizter T <mizter.t@> remarked:
>If one picked this ticket up from the FastTicket machine at 06.55 that
>monday morning (and modern systems now do add a 'printed on' time and
>date to the ticket), I can imagine the gripper might have some issues
>with it, given that one could not possibly have used the outbound
>ticket from London - though I'm not sure whether they'd have a leg to
>stand on though, does this count as breaking the rules?

I don't think I've seen a *railway* rule that says you can't discard the
outbound half of a return ticket. Some airlines build it into the T&C,
though.
--
Roland Perry