Meridian in Liverpool

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eh4md5QDpUqIFAab@perry.co.uk...
> In message <zuqdnUPJOJ1I2jTV4p2dnAA@bt.com>, at 10:52:03 on Mon, 18 Aug
> 2008, Paul Scott <notvalidpmscott@> remarked:
>>> A Meridian might even be better than a 2-car 158 on the Norwich services
>>> (although I can hardly believe I'm saying that). The irony would be that
>>> AXC are *not* using Voyagers on the similar Birmingham-Stansted run,
>>> which
>>> was what some hoped originally.
>>
>>presumably the only people who thought Voyagers might be used on Stansted
>>turns had no idea about the rest of the XC network, and its requirements
>>for
>>rolling stock.
>
> It was simply a reaction to the "brand image" especially with the
> possibility of Virgin in charge.

Ah yes - if Virgin had added Stansted to their existing network - the theory
being Virgin wouldn't want to use 2 or 3 car 170s etc.

I recall 'opposite' thinking (not here in uk.railway I hasten to add) at the
time of the eventual franchise decision along the lines of 'where will nice
Mr Branson take all his Voyagers now that he has lost the XC franchise', and
what stock will Arriva be able to use...

Paul

In message
<bf661ddb-9030-47d9-8084-67329200069d@m44g2000hsc..com>, at
03:30:05 on Mon, 18 Aug 2008, Standing at HN28 signal
<cig_big_cig.uk> remarked:
>> _Most_ of the MML HST fleet now with AXC?
>>
>> Can you quote some numbers for that, it sounds remarkable, given the
>> comparative fleet sizes, and some of the 5 XC sets being LHCS conversions
>> etc...
>
>Where did all the power cars come from? All the ones I have seen have
>been in MML livery. Also, considering that whenever I go to the MML
>the only HSTs I seem to see are Leeds services,

The depot's in Leeds, isn't it?

>with the very occasional Sheffield.

The 10.30 from Nottingham is an HST. It's a train I get quite often
because it gets to London for lunchtime.

>Go back a couple of years and almost all the Sheffields were HST
>operated.

Displaced by the longer Meridians, presumably. I think the new franchise
had some "faster times to Sheffield" as a result. That's when they can
bother to run the trains at all, which doesn't seem to include Sunday
evenings.
--
Roland Perry

In message <4ql0y4xphnsr.8azg4dfbfy0p$.dlg@40tude.net>, at 14:59:44 on
Mon, 18 Aug 2008, Chris Tolley <cjt.7@supanet.com> remarked:
>> Positively Orwellian. 'All of our trains have catering, but some have more
>> than others'...
>
>OTOH, few would disagree with "two coaches bad, four coaches good"

Although unless declassified, a 4-car Meridian only has two and a half
cars of standard, minus the space used for the shop and minus a
considerable bike/luggage store at the rear. I wouldn't be surprised if
that was fewer actual seats than a 2-car suburban DMU.

Having said that, almost all the Meridians are 5-car now.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote
>
> Although unless declassified, a 4-car Meridian only has two and a half
> cars of standard, minus the space used for the shop and minus a
> considerable bike/luggage store at the rear. I wouldn't be surprised if
> that was fewer actual seats than a 2-car suburban DMU.
>
Perhaps the extreme was to compare a 2EPB (about 186 seats) with a 6-car
Midland Pullman (132 seats). When the Oxford Pullman was in the timetable
the WR used to replace it on the Fridays before Bank Holidays with a 3-car
DMU, with significantly greater seating capacity.

Peter

On 17 Aug, 20:54, Charlie Hulme <i...@davenportstation.org.uk> wrote:
> The following missive comes my way:
>
> "Surprise visitor to Lime Street yesterday was EMT
> 222013. This was on a trial run 5Z24 arriving at 1700
> and departing as 5Z25 at 1905. Out and back was via
> Warrington Central. The originating point has not been
> reported. EMT are expected to use Meridians on certain
> Liverpool to Norwich services from Summer 2009, but
> this is not yet confirmed."
>
> There's a thought!
>
> Charlie

Virgin Trains Media have today (again) released the information
regarding the 17 shutdown at Rugby. The bit that caught my eye:

Quote: From North West England to London St Pancras using East
Midlands Trains (There is some engineering work on this route on
Sunday 24 August)

There you have it. Perhaps East Midlands are expecting even more
overcrowding.

Michael

"Paul Scott" <notvalidpmscott@> wrote in message
news:76SdnTy3ApELyTTVnZ2dnUVZ8u-dnZ2d@bt.com...
> I think your earlier point is just an exaggerated oversimplification of
> the HST recent reallocations, after which I estimate XC will have maybe
> two or three ex 'MML' sets, and EMT will still have many more than that. 9
> or 10? Mk3 sets and 23? power cars...

XC will have 5 HST sets. 2 ex-MML, with 6 ex-MML power cars, other 4 power
cars being ex-store.
EMT have 11 HST sets, 25 power cars.

"Richard Fairhurst" <richardf@systemed.net> wrote in message
news:2f972b5f-c40d-4d70-9630-0098904be181@x41g2000hsb..com...
> darkprince66 wrote:
>> The 5 coach Meridians will continue
>> to work the St Pancras-Derby/Notts stoppers
>
> then Peter Fox wrote, re: the latest sighting:
>> I suspect that they will only be used between Liverpool and Nottingham.
>
> ...and if the two runs were combined (i.e. a St Pancras-Nottingham
> then became a Nottingham-Liverpool), voila: Rio Mark II.

....followed straightaway by a Virgin MOC objection for the St Pancras to
Piccadilly part of the route, perhaps?

Paul

<trackmiles@> wrote in message
news:ab282d8b-d946-4e49-8c48-281d6c392614@25g2000hsx..com...

> Also remember that MML only took on "Rio" on the basis that it was a 7-
> day service, not at weekends and bank holidays - which the SRA wanted
> originally. MML pointed out that it couldn't be staffed or resourced
> on a part-time basis. To a certain extent the same would apply to EMT
> - and even if it could be resourced by additional rest-day-working I
> don't see the DfT or Network Rail paying for the additional cost of
> the operation.

BTW Tony, did you see the question in another thread about the WCML
timetables for next year, a couple of us were trying to tease out whether or
not the supposed 'consultation' had led to any changes to what is on the DfT
site?

Paul

I continue to follow all these route, stopping patterns, timing
restrictions and/or inter TOC disputes with despair at what
the John Major Govt's railway privatisation foisted upon us.

When I were a lad, there were still four passenger-carrying
railway routes competing between Liverpool and Manchester.
At least three of them were also used by important long distance
expresses running to and from places all over the UK.

The LMS ran via Wigan (ex-L&Y), Earlestown (ex-LNWR) and
Warrington BQ Low Level (ex-LNWR). The Cheshire Lines ran
via Warrington Central, and was itself owned 1/3rd by the LMS
(ex-Midland) and 2/3rds by the LNER (ex-GC and ex-GN).

I don't remember any Rail Regulator, DfT, ORR, OPRAF, SRA,
HSE, TOC or H&SE, etc., being involved, or even mentioned.

Regards, feeling aggrieved in my old age...

DigitisED (Eddie Bellass)

Eddie & Margaret Bellass,
Merseyside, United Kingdom.

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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:18:25 +0100, Tony Polson
<docnews2011@> wrote:

>Richard Fairhurst <richardf@systemed.net> wrote:
>>
>>On Aug 19, 2:46 pm, trackmi...@ wrote:
>>> Running via Nottingham, along with the reverse at Sheffield, would be
>>> a very long journey - longer than a change at Sheffield I'd guess.. so
>>> not very attractive anyway?
>>
>>Oh, absolutely, it makes no sense as a through journey from Liverpool
>>to St Pancras. But for those passengers who prefer to avoid changing
>>trains, the additional journey opportunities from the South-East
>>Midlands to the North-West would be a win - a fairly small one in the
>>scheme of things, but if diagramming permits, why not?
>
>
>Because Virgin Trains would not allow it.

IA very definitely NAL, but I wonder whether that exclusivity
agreement between the DfT and Virgin Trains breaches European
competition law?