Eurostar move to St Pancras a success, despite predictions of gloom from SWT-land.

On Jul 16, 7:14 pm, MIG <googles...@doreenbird.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 7:13 pm, "Peter Masson" <peter.mass...@> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mark Annand" <mark.ann...@invalid.zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >news:487e3663$0$761$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.n et...> Roland Perry wrote:
>
> > > > I wonder how many of those effects you list can possibly account for
> > > > 190% increase in passengers from Derby, other than the move to St
> > Pancras.
>
> > > I wonder how the Manchester figures are - against what they would be
> > > with Manchester to St Pancras direct services via Chinley and Matlock..
>
> > Or Manchester to St Pancras direct services via Primrose Hill. ISTR that a
> > spur from the NLL into St Pancras was built for WCML to E* connections - or
> > even NoL E*s calling at St Pancras en route between the WCML and Paris.
>
> > Peter
>
> Wouldn't they have to travel down the DC lines all the way from
> Watford?-

No, of course they wouldn't. Pardon my temporary absence of brain.

"tim....." <tims_new_home.uk> wrote in message
news:6e6ttoF5ksnoU1@mid....
>
> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:siTatfJ4ChfIFAF0@perry.co.uk...
>> In message
>> <907bc1d3-2b3b-4a6e-a4aa-af8a4d5b23c1@25g2000hsx..com>, at
>> 07:09:55 on Wed, 16 Jul 2008, amoglesm remarked:
>>>The following, in particular have changed.
>>>
>>>- opening of CTRL shortens station to station journey time by Eurostar
>>>- opening of CTRL disentangles Eurostar paths from those of suburban
>>>electrics, meaning higher punctuality
>>>- air travel suffers from higher fuel prices
>>>
>>>How can we hope to tell which percentage of ridership increase is due
>>>to which of these factors? We can't. So how can we know where
>>>ridership would be today if the CTRL were to terminate at Waterloo? We
>>>can't.
>>
>> I wonder how many of those effects you list can possibly account for 190%
>> increase in passengers from Derby, other than the move to St Pancras.
>
> Is that from 5 to 9?

5 to 14, surely?

"John Salmon" <john.e.salmon@gensheet.com> wrote in message
news:4dednSLb5dJt3-PVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> "tim....." <tims_new_home.uk> wrote in message
> news:6e6ttoF5ksnoU1@mid....
>>
>> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:siTatfJ4ChfIFAF0@perry.co.uk...
>>> In message
>>> <907bc1d3-2b3b-4a6e-a4aa-af8a4d5b23c1@25g2000hsx..com>, at
>>> 07:09:55 on Wed, 16 Jul 2008, amoglesm remarked:
>>>>The following, in particular have changed.
>>>>
>>>>- opening of CTRL shortens station to station journey time by Eurostar
>>>>- opening of CTRL disentangles Eurostar paths from those of suburban
>>>>electrics, meaning higher punctuality
>>>>- air travel suffers from higher fuel prices
>>>>
>>>>How can we hope to tell which percentage of ridership increase is due
>>>>to which of these factors? We can't. So how can we know where
>>>>ridership would be today if the CTRL were to terminate at Waterloo? We
>>>>can't.
>>>
>>> I wonder how many of those effects you list can possibly account for
>>> 190% increase in passengers from Derby, other than the move to St
>>> Pancras.
>>
>> Is that from 5 to 9?
>
> 5 to 14, surely?
or perhaps 14 + a child?

In message <5aOdnWZg3quup-PVnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@bt.com>, at 19:13:23 on
Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Peter Masson <peter.masson1@> remarked:
>ISTR that a
>spur from the NLL into St Pancras was built for WCML to E* connections - or
>even NoL E*s calling at St Pancras en route between the WCML and Paris.

There is, but if you look at the track layout it clearly has serious
capacity constraints.
--
Roland Perry

Mark Annand wrote:
> Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> I wonder how many of those effects you list can possibly account for
>> 190% increase in passengers from Derby, other than the move to St
>> Pancras.
>
> I wonder how the Manchester figures are - against what they would be
> with Manchester to St Pancras direct services via Chinley and Matlock.
>
>


Perhaps Euston should be re-named St Pancras
International (West) ;-)

Charlie

Jeremy Double wrote:
> amoglesm wrote:
>> There are so many effects taking place at the same time that it is
>> difficult to pinpoint one single cause.
>>
>> The following, in particular have changed.
>>
>> - opening of CTRL shortens station to station journey time by Eurostar
>> - opening of CTRL disentangles Eurostar paths from those of suburban
>> electrics, meaning higher punctuality
>> - air travel suffers from higher fuel prices
>>
>> How can we hope to tell which percentage of ridership increase is due
>> to which of these factors? We can't. So how can we know where
>> ridership would be today if the CTRL were to terminate at Waterloo? We
>> can't.
>
> OTOH, the large increase in through passengers from north-of-London
> cities at least suggests strongly that the improved connectivity of St
> Pancras has had an influence.
>
> Anecdotal I know, but in the year before the move, I (based in West
> Yorkshire) used Eurostar twice (and one of those was precipitated by the
> withdrawal of the bmi LBA to CDG service). In the 8 months since the
> move, I have used Eurostar three times, and I'm considering it for
> another trip in October (although the competing air alternative is very
> strong in this case).
>
> In my perception, Eurostar had changed from being a service primarily
> aimed at people in the south-east of England to one that serves the
> whole country.

I think the through deals also help sell it more, though how come its so
much more expensive to travel from FGWland then it is from EMT or NXEC
Territory

On 16 Jul, 19:10, Graeme Wall <R...@greywall.> wrote:

> > Probably because the silent majority from 'SWT land' aren't scared of the
> > underground, as some of us had been saying since the decision was made.
>
> The Underground is not the problem, it's SWT.
>

Graeme,

I don't understand. People from 'SWT land' previously had to use SWT
to reach Waterloo International. They now have to use SWT and the
Underground to reach St. Pancras International (except from a small
numer of places where they can now use other operators - Windsor,
Reading, Wimbledon - or just the Underground - Richmond, Vauxhall,
Wimbledon again). Hence the quality of the Underground could be a
factor, the quality of SWT cannot.

Steve Adams

Graeme Wall <Rail@greywall.> writes:

> It can if SWT can't be bothered to sell you a ticket to London International
> and expect you to fork out for a standard return.

Don't you mean two standard singles? Are most (if not all) standard
returns in SWT land not same day tickets rather than period ones? So
unless you are making a day trip on Eurostar you would need a single for
each direction.

"Graham Murray" <newspost@gmurray.org.uk> wrote in message
news:87sku8luef.fsf@newton.gmurray.org.uk...
> Graeme Wall <Rail@greywall.> writes:
>
>> It can if SWT can't be bothered to sell you a ticket to London
>> International
>> and expect you to fork out for a standard return.
>
> Don't you mean two standard singles? Are most (if not all) standard
> returns in SWT land not same day tickets rather than period ones? So
> unless you are making a day trip on Eurostar you would need a single for
> each direction.

Not necessarily - down in the wilds of Hampshire we can get Savers and
things, cos we can be trusted not to use the tickets fraudulently. :-)

Paul