First TPE Advance tickets

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:23:58 +0100, "Paul Scott"
<notvalidpmscott@> wrote:

>Chris Tolley wrote:
>> Nodding Donkey wrote:
>>
>>> It can't be good that one cannot get advance tickets between two of
>>> England's most important cities.
>>
>> There are more important pairings than Newcastle-Liverpool for which
>> this is also true, though few of them would be so widely spaced.
>
>But its been well established now that there are plenty of Advance fares
>available for this route - they just aren't being presented by the
>planner...

And, just as importantly, you can do the trip with a single TOC and a
single change of trains. I'm surprised there is a problem with this.

In message
<aacee205-7e9a-4e5e-bd49-618c932bc8b5@x35g2000hsb..com>, at
03:36:35 on Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Nodding Donkey <floridsalopia@m>
remarked:
>Also, why are advance tickets rarely available from suburban stations
>thus providing insurance against delays on local trains (to be fair,
>Virgin do do this).
>
>Do they want our money or not?

They want to be able to advertise catchy fares on billboards and deny
with a reasonably straight face that all railway tickets cost a fortune.
--
Roland Perry

In message <oqy0eta4px1r$.1k3rxa6c5m9vy.dlg@40tude.net>, at 10:59:14 on
Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Chris Tolley <cjt.7@supanet.com> remarked:
>Some months ago, I was listening to someone from the new XC operator,
>being quizzed on "You and Yours" (R4) or something similar about the way
>they set their fares. At one point in the discussion, it emerged that
>if they can sell AP fares on their trains that are tied to specific
>seats on specific journeys, then they keep all the revenue. If they sell
>more flexible tickets, then they get less than 100% of the revenue,
>perhaps less pounds and pee than from the AP ticket. Suppose that to be
>true, then turn it on its head - if will follow that one cannot have AP
>tickets unless there is a through service between those points, which
>would answer both of your questions.

The final point cannot be true, as I've been issued an AP ticket where
the legs were in turn: MML, CT, VXC, FGW. I believe it was "XC and
connections", even though the longest leg by far was on FGW.

With slightly different timing (and availability) but presumably the
same price, a more sensible ticket between the same end points would
however have been issued as almost entirely XC with just a small hop on
CT.

Nottingham/Leicester/Bham/Reading/Plymouth was the ticket I was sold.
Nottingham/Derby/Plymouth is the other possibility.
--
Roland Perry

Nodding Donkey wrote:
> Trying to book (via Thetrainline) advance tickets from Liverpool -
> Newcastle.
>
> These are apparently not available for a journey between two major
> cities both served by the same operator (albeit there are no direct
> trains).
>

Let's check this out for a month's time:

Firstly, there is a direct train at 0618, and secondly, it has an Advance
fare available, £29 single.

So the question then is why are there are no Advance + connections fares
available with other TPEx services; but there are. Only on the 0822 though.

Then I notice the 15th of August which I'm checking is a Friday.

Enter details for 12th August. The 0618 fare is now £18.00. The 0822 is
£29.00.

Enter details for 09th Sept. The 0618 and 0822 fares are both £29.00.

Summary? The Advance fares that are available have to be booked well in
advance, but only TPEx can explain why there appear to be none available
later in the day.

Paul

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <oqy0eta4px1r$.1k3rxa6c5m9vy.dlg@40tude.net>, at 10:59:14
> on Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Chris Tolley <cjt.7@supanet.com> remarked:
>> Some months ago, I was listening to someone from the new XC operator,
>> being quizzed on "You and Yours" (R4) or something similar about the
>> way they set their fares. At one point in the discussion, it
>> emerged that if they can sell AP fares on their trains that are tied
>> to specific seats on specific journeys, then they keep all the
>> revenue. If they sell more flexible tickets, then they get less than
>> 100% of the revenue, perhaps less pounds and pee than from the AP
>> ticket. Suppose that to be true, then turn it on its head - if will
>> follow that one cannot have AP tickets unless there is a through
>> service between those points, which would answer both of your
>> questions.
>
> The final point cannot be true, as I've been issued an AP ticket where
> the legs were in turn: MML, CT, VXC, FGW. I believe it was "XC and
> connections", even though the longest leg by far was on FGW.

I was surprised Chris came to this conclusion, there have been regular
discussions here about 'AP + connections tickets', mainly dwelling on the
options for connecting services, such as the meaning of any reservations,
and if the connecting train details are advisory or mandatory in the absence
of reservations.

The XC rep on the radio (quoted above) mustn't have realised that they get a
proportion of the flexible ticket revenues sold by other operators on a
route. Maybe he was attempting to mislead his audience.

Paul

Advanced Tickets are available on TPE from Liverpool to Newcastle

I have just tried on 23 September - the following are available
depart at 0618 or 0822 - £22.
Why they are not available on other trains is either because they have
sold out or that the sevices are so popular they do not need to sell
ap tickets.


Peter

On 15 Jul, 12:22, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <oqy0eta4px1r$.1k3rxa6c5m9vy....@40tude.net>, at 10:59:14 on
> Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Chris Tolley <cj...@supanet.com> remarked:
>
> >Some months ago, I was listening to someone from the new XC operator,
> >being quizzed on "You and Yours" (R4) or something similar about the way
> >they set their fares. At one point in the discussion, it emerged that
> >if they can sell AP fares on their trains that are tied to specific
> >seats on specific journeys, then they keep all the revenue. If they sell
> >more flexible tickets, then they get less than 100% of the revenue,
> >perhaps less pounds and pee than from the AP ticket. Suppose that to be
> >true, then turn it on its head - if will follow that one cannot have AP
> >tickets unless there is a through service between those points, which
> >would answer both of your questions.
>
> The final point cannot be true, as I've been issued an AP ticket where
> the legs were in turn: MML, CT, VXC, FGW. I believe it was "XC and
> connections", even though the longest leg by far was on FGW.
>
> With slightly different timing (and availability) but presumably the
> same price, a more sensible ticket between the same end points would
> however have been issued as almost entirely XC with just a small hop on
> CT.
>
> Nottingham/Leicester/Bham/Reading/Plymouth was the ticket I was sold.
> Nottingham/Derby/Plymouth is the other possibility.
> --
> Roland Perry

Quite. Virgin have given me some very convoluted multi-operator
advance ticket journeys in the past (once suggesting Liverpool-
Bournemouth via Euston and Waterloo), and will sell me a ticket to
Mossley Hill.

It can't be good that one cannot get advance tickets between two of
England's most important cities.

On 15 Jul, 13:02, collybs <pe...@collybs.co.uk> wrote:
> Advanced Tickets are available on TPE from Liverpool to Newcastle
>
> I have just tried on 23 September - the following are available
> depart at 0618 or 0822 - £22.
> Why they are not available on other trains is either because they have
> sold out or that the sevices are so popular they do not need to sell
> ap tickets.
>
> Peter

Just noticed they are available at the same time on the date I want to
travel (The 0618 is the only through train of the day BTW). Can't find
any advance tickets for the return leg, which negates any advantage
over a Saver. Also, this is a leisure trip so don't really want an
early start.

My problem is in the middle of the day I could buy an advance ticket
Liverpool - York, and then one on a York-Newcastle connection (whether
first TPE, NXEC or XC) - thus AP spaces are available, but the
Trainline won't connect them. Its up to me to look separately.

On 15 Jul, 13:12, Nodding Donkey <floridsalo...@m> wrote:
> On 15 Jul, 13:02, collybs <pe...@collybs.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Advanced Tickets are available on TPE from Liverpool to Newcastle
>
> > I have just tried on 23 September - the following are available
> > depart at 0618 or 0822 - £22.
> > Why they are not available on other trains is either because they have
> > sold out or that the sevices are so popular they do not need to sell
> > ap tickets.
>
> > Peter
>
> Just noticed they are available at the same time on the date I want to
> travel (The 0618 is the only through train of the day BTW). Can't find
> any advance tickets for the return leg, which negates any advantage
> over a Saver. Also, this is a leisure trip so don't really want an
> early start.
>
> My problem is in the middle of the day I could buy an advance ticket
> Liverpool - York, and then one on a York-Newcastle connection (whether
> first TPE, NXEC or XC) - thus AP spaces are available, but the
> Trainline won't connect them. Its up to me to look separately.

Presumably the problem is that the legs don't match up, i.e. there
will always be a faster connection from York northwards which doesn't
have a quota for TPE advance tickets.

Liverpool TPE trains generally go to Scarborough
Newcastle TPE trains generally come from Manchester Airport

Between the arrival of the Scarborough train at York and the departure
of the slower TPE train to Newcastle, there is often an XC or NXEC
train which messes the through reservations up.

Using "via Thirsk" might get you a through TPE journey - it certainly
gets me the 1422 on 12 August (the date tried earlier in the thread).
"via Dewsbury" gets me the 1022, 1222, 1422, 1622, 1822 at varying
prices and return journeys each hour.

One of the other tricks is searching by "arrive by" instead of "leave
after" as it often causes a different changing station.

From previous threads, we have never got to to bottom of which quotas
a train needs to accept other operators AP tickets (despite
"simplification"). I notice that Southern's introduction of advance
tickets continues to cause problems with through booking of AP
tickets.

Hope that helps

Jonathan

On 15 Jul, 13:34, j.p.har...@talk21.com wrote:
> On 15 Jul, 13:12, Nodding Donkey <floridsalo...@m> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 15 Jul, 13:02, collybs <pe...@collybs.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Advanced Tickets are available on TPE from Liverpool to Newcastle
>
> > > I have just tried on 23 September - the following are available
> > > depart at 0618 or 0822 - £22.
> > > Why they are not available on other trains is either because they have
> > > sold out or that the sevices are so popular they do not need to sell
> > > ap tickets.
>
> > > Peter
>
> > Just noticed they are available at the same time on the date I want to
> > travel (The 0618 is the only through train of the day BTW). Can't find
> > any advance tickets for the return leg, which negates any advantage
> > over a Saver. Also, this is a leisure trip so don't really want an
> > early start.
>
> > My problem is in the middle of the day I could buy an advance ticket
> > Liverpool - York, and then one on a York-Newcastle connection (whether
> > first TPE, NXEC or XC) - thus AP spaces are available, but the
> > Trainline won't connect them. Its up to me to look separately.
>
> Presumably the problem is that the legs don't match up, i.e. there
> will always be a faster connection from York northwards which doesn't
> have a quota for TPE advance tickets.
>
> Liverpool TPE trains generally go to Scarborough
> Newcastle TPE trains generally come from Manchester Airport
>
> Between the arrival of the Scarborough train at York and the departure
> of the slower TPE train to Newcastle, there is often an XC or NXEC
> train which messes the through reservations up.
>
> Using "via Thirsk" might get you a through TPE journey - it certainly
> gets me the 1422 on 12 August (the date tried earlier in the thread).
> "via Dewsbury" gets me the 1022, 1222, 1422, 1622, 1822 at varying
> prices and return journeys each hour.
>
> One of the other tricks is searching by "arrive by" instead of "leave
> after" as it often causes a different changing station.
>
> From previous threads, we have never got to to bottom of which quotas
> a train needs to accept other operators AP tickets (despite
> "simplification"). I notice that Southern's introduction of advance
> tickets continues to cause problems with through booking of AP
> tickets.
>
> Hope that helps
>
> Jonathan

Thanks, that makes sense now.

Is there any way they could programme the trainline to look for
advance tickets on both legs of a two leg journey, and then add the
prices? e.g. in this case changing at York is suggested by the
trainline, therefore how difficult would it be to quote a Liverpool-
York and a York-Newcastle fare?