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Old 26th June 2008, 08:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
google
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Default BBC: Is this the new age of the train?

On Jun 26, 1:02 pm, John B <s...@johnband.org> wrote:
> Last year, the National Road Traffic Survey recorded its first drop in
> car use since it began its annual study.
>
> But the "two rails good, four wheels bad" theory might not necessarily
> hold for those who have suffered rising prices and disruption on
> mainline services.
>
> [end quote]
>

Yes. I saw that. This stood out particularly:

"People who wouldn't previously have considered buying a bike realise
it now makes financial sense, particularly at the cheaper end of
bikes.

People really, really, really need to be dissuaded from buying bikes
at the cheaper end. They will be heavy, hard work to ride, and
generally put people off cycling after one attempt. Some of that could
be fixed by fitting high pressure slick tyres - but how many people
are going to spend an extra 30 quid putting new tyres onto a bike that
cost them 99 quid? But the weight is still there - and if you haven't
cycled for years the first hill[1] is going to hurt regardless until
you've been cycling for several weeks but the difference between a 99
bike and a 299 bike may well be that the first time you go up that
hill you actually make it to the top without getting off and pushing
with the more expensive bike.

[1] I'm referring to the sorts of hills that regular cyclists just
consider to be a bit more work than cycling on the flat. If your
commute takes you across the pennines then it's going to be extremely
unlikely that any bike will get you over without getting of and
pushing unless you're already a fairly fit cyclist.

It would be far better if Evans were instead encouraging people to go
back to their employer and get them to do the cycle to work scheme.
That way they will effectively get an extra 30% on their budget for
nothing (more if they are a HRT payer) and will be able to include
other essential things like lightweight waterproofs. (Actually this is
a place where cycle clothes manufacturers let things down. Lightweight
waterproof over trousers and lightweight waterproofs to wear over
normal shoes just don't seem to exist - the overshoes in particular
should be like latex gloves - 10p each and throw away after one use -
because anything robust enough not to get torn will be unnecessarily
heavy. They need to squeeze down into a tiny package that can live in
the corner of a bag until the next rain.)

IMO other "must haves" for the serious cycle commuter would be things
like hub dynamo lighting. You can manage with just battery lights but
you have to be meticulous in checking your batteries regularly -
especially in the summer months where suddenly you get caught late at
work and find yourself riding home in the dark.

Tim.
 
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Old 26th June 2008, 09:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
Brian R
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Default BBC: Is this the new age of the train?

google@woodall.me.uk wrote:
> On Jun 26, 1:02 pm, John B <s...@johnband.org> wrote:
>> Last year, the National Road Traffic Survey recorded its first drop in
>> car use since it began its annual study.
>>
>> But the "two rails good, four wheels bad" theory might not necessarily
>> hold for those who have suffered rising prices and disruption on
>> mainline services.
>>
>> [end quote]
>>

> Yes. I saw that. This stood out particularly:
>
> "People who wouldn't previously have considered buying a bike realise
> it now makes financial sense, particularly at the cheaper end of
> bikes.
>
> People really, really, really need to be dissuaded from buying bikes
> at the cheaper end. They will be heavy, hard work to ride, and
> generally put people off cycling after one attempt. Some of that could
> be fixed by fitting high pressure slick tyres - but how many people
> are going to spend an extra 30 quid putting new tyres onto a bike that
> cost them 99 quid? But the weight is still there - and if you haven't
> cycled for years the first hill[1] is going to hurt regardless until
> you've been cycling for several weeks but the difference between a 99
> bike and a 299 bike may well be that the first time you go up that
> hill you actually make it to the top without getting off and pushing
> with the more expensive bike.
>
> [1] I'm referring to the sorts of hills that regular cyclists just
> consider to be a bit more work than cycling on the flat. If your
> commute takes you across the pennines then it's going to be extremely
> unlikely that any bike will get you over without getting of and
> pushing unless you're already a fairly fit cyclist.
>
> It would be far better if Evans were instead encouraging people to go
> back to their employer and get them to do the cycle to work scheme.
> That way they will effectively get an extra 30% on their budget for
> nothing (more if they are a HRT payer) and will be able to include
> other essential things like lightweight waterproofs. (Actually this is
> a place where cycle clothes manufacturers let things down. Lightweight
> waterproof over trousers and lightweight waterproofs to wear over
> normal shoes just don't seem to exist - the overshoes in particular
> should be like latex gloves - 10p each and throw away after one use -
> because anything robust enough not to get torn will be unnecessarily
> heavy. They need to squeeze down into a tiny package that can live in
> the corner of a bag until the next rain.)
>
> IMO other "must haves" for the serious cycle commuter would be things
> like hub dynamo lighting. You can manage with just battery lights but
> you have to be meticulous in checking your batteries regularly -
> especially in the summer months where suddenly you get caught late at
> work and find yourself riding home in the dark.
>
> Tim.


All correct, apart from the bit about lights. I use battery lights and
rechargeable batteries bought from Aldi, £2.99 for 4. I use them for
several days and then recharge them and always have a spare set in my
bum bag. Never had a light go out on me yet.

I started cycling again on something cheap and nasty, just to see if I
would stick it. Less than 500 miles later - maybe as little as a half
that - the entire rear wheel was a write off. Now I have a much better
bike and the experience of cycling has been transformed.

However, we are a long, long way off cycling being an alternative to
commuting for many people. The perception of most people - and they
aren't far wrong - is that the roads are dangerous. Not enough is being
doing to change this. The government have spent millions on creating a
network of cycle paths and it is a wonderful thing, but don't let anyone
tell you that they are suitable for commuting or, in many cases, for
novice cyclists. I did a section of the Trans Pennine Trail from
Stockport to Hyde the other day and it was awful, forcing me to walk for
a stretch of it and nearly coming off a couple of times. Going the other
direction from my house towards Broadbottom is even worse. Massive
puddles cross one section, so deep that it would be impossible to see
large stones that would stop you dead at low speed and force you to
stand on the ground, but also so deep that your feet actually went into
the water as you peddled! And this on a section that the maps show as
well surfaced!!!!

Then add to that the fact that only a tiny proportion of companies offer
proper changing facilities for cyclists at work. We are a long way off a
cycling revolution in this country.

Brian.
 
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Old 26th June 2008, 10:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
Charlie Hulme
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Brian R wrote:

> I did a section of the Trans Pennine Trail from
> Stockport to Hyde the other day and it was awful, forcing me to walk for
> a stretch of it and nearly coming off a couple of times.


This very evening I shall be at a meeting of the Stockport
Cycle Users Group, the agenda this time being to discuss the
Trans Pennine Trail. (These meetings are open to all
residents, but few ever turn up.)

One thing I already know is that the arrangements for
care and maintenance of the trail were not sufficiently
considered at the time it was created. The TPT is
not first and foremost a commuter route though.

I just got back from Husum in Nordfriesland: the
arrangements for cyclists there are a total revelation
to anyone used to the token gestures in a place like
Stockport - but then Schleswig-Holstein is
a flat area!

Ob Rail: The 'regional' trains on the Hamburg - Westerland
line (operated by Connex) are loco-worked rakes of 5,
sometimes 10, coaches, with half a coach per set a
'multi-purpose area' with folding seats, that could take
quite a few bikes...

Charlie






 
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Old 26th June 2008, 10:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
Brian R
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Default BBC: Is this the new age of the train?

Paul Rigg wrote:
> <> IMO other "must haves" for the serious cycle commuter would be things
>> like hub dynamo lighting. You can manage with just battery lights but
>> you have to be meticulous in checking your batteries regularly -
>> especially in the summer months where suddenly you get caught late at
>> work and find yourself riding home in the dark.
>>
>> Tim

>
>
> Good lord a cyclist who's worried about riding his bike without lights.
>
> That would be a very rare breed round here most of them think they have
> every right to .
> .


You mean like the motorists who think that speed limits are optional?
The world would be a safer place if it were infested with lightless
cycles and all you polluting motorists had your licences taken off you,
most of which seem to have been obtained by cutting them off the back of
Cornflakes packets.

Roll on the day when more than 5 mph over the speed limit means an
automatic ban.

;-)

Brian.

PS You forgot to moan about those like me who ignore traffic lights and
cycle on pavements.


 
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Old 26th June 2008, 11:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
Brian R
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Default BBC: Is this the new age of the train?

Charlie Hulme wrote:

> cycling is not allowed by British
> Waterways on the towpath of the Peak Forest Canal.
>


Such is life.

Brian.

 
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Old 26th June 2008, 01:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
Roland Perry
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Default BBC: Is this the new age of the train?

In message
<9164ce55-5347-4d7a-8072-fcba92bf4354@d77g2000hsb..com>, at
05:50:30 on Thu, 26 Jun 2008, "google@woodall.me.uk"
<google@woodall.me.uk> remarked:
>It would be far better if Evans were instead encouraging people to go
>back to their employer and get them to do the cycle to work scheme.


I'm self employed; can I do this too?
--
Roland Perry
 
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Old 27th June 2008, 04:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
Charlie Hulme
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Neil Williams wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:47:05 +0100, Tony Polson
> <docnews2011@> wrote:
>
>> I wonder why these lights are not fitted with radar rather than
>> inductive loops? It has been quite a few years now since radar was
>> approved for permanent traffic lights - it was previously restricted
>> to temporary traffic lights for roadworks etc..

>
> No idea, but it is an almighty pain, as one is left with the
> inconvenience of having to get off and push or of having to wait for a
> car, or with being forced to break the law.
>


I did raise this last night with Stockport Council's Cycling
Officer, and he said that they can be adjusted to 'see'
bikes and he had recently met with the highway engineers at
one location (not the one mentioned by Brian - Brian, can
you email me off-list?) to arrange for this to be done.

Charlie


 
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Old 27th June 2008, 10:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
Roland Perry
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In message <slrng686at.4cu.devnull@dirac.home.woodall.me.uk >, at
22:34:05 on Thu, 26 Jun 2008, Tim Woodall <devnull@woodall.me.uk>
remarked:

>>>It would be far better if Evans were instead encouraging people to go
>>>back to their employer and get them to do the cycle to work scheme.

>>
>> I'm self employed; can I do this too?


>I believe so, yes. Assuming you pay yourself a salary rather than
>dividends.


But a self employed person has neither salary or dividends. All you have
is the "profit" (income less expenditure) which is then taxed just the
same as an employee's income, but with lower NI.

>The only significant requirement is that the majority use must be for
>commuting.


Hmm, I work from home; but if I was visiting a client for the day I
could cycle to the railway station (rather than taking the bus).

--
Roland Perry
 
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Old 27th June 2008, 11:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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On 27 Jun, 15:29, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Hmm, I work from home; but if I was visiting a client for the day I
> could cycle to the railway station (rather than taking the bus).
>


You must be rich to be able to travel on turn up and go rail tickets
and an optimist to expect your cycle to be still there undamaged on
your return.

In fact you must live on another planet, cyclists/train world perhaps.
NM
 
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Old 27th June 2008, 12:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
Roland Perry
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In message
<bc700d57-c5fa-448f-9b98-5b91b6ee592d@l64g2000hse..com>, at
08:45:44 on Fri, 27 Jun 2008, NM <nik.morgan@mac.com> remarked:
>> Hmm, I work from home; but if I was visiting a client for the day I
>> could cycle to the railway station (rather than taking the bus).

>
>You must be rich to be able to travel on turn up and go rail tickets


It cost me £11.90 on turn-up-and-go tickets to Birmingham and back
today. That's for over 3 hours on a train. Although I'd have been even
more pleased if the trains were quicker and it had been just 2 hours
worth.

For longer trips I try very hard to use AP tickets, and I fail to see
the connection between railway ticket type and the way I travel to the
station.

>and an optimist to expect your cycle to be still there undamaged on
>your return.


That's another story. An old bike should be fairly safe at somewhere
like Nottingham station. There's very little cycling in the City so I
expect the demand for stolen bikes is quite low.
--
Roland Perry
 
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