Catering on CrossCountry trains

"Patrick Osborne" <patrick1971@> wrote in message
news:93fffe6b-9e77-43eb-b324-cac5768046e5@25g2000hsx..com
....

> I never usually travel on CrossCountry services, but is this the
> norm? I can understand them closing up to cash up, etc. about half an
> hour before the terminating station, but this seems excessive.
> Doesn't Virgin want to sell food to make more money?

I'm amused at how much TOCs spend on branding to so little effect...

In message
<0d964156-f012-4ad7-8964-329d2479f5f0@79g2000hsk..com>, at
14:50:33 on Mon, 23 Jun 2008, scootitred@m remarked:

>bag up all the waste sandwiches

What are "waste sandwiches". Are those the perishables left in stock on
the very last turn of the day?

>This has to be done by the time you get to the terminating station or
>by the station you are due to get off otherwise you may get
>overcarried to somewhere you don't want to go

But with 30 minute turn-around at places like St Pancras (yes, I know
that's not Crosscountry), and almost an hour at Nottingham, where is
this place you might get overcarried to?
--
Roland Perry

On 24 Jun, 14:27, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> If they are going out on the same train, their rest period is the entire
> time the train is turning round.

Boy, you don't know much....the rest period only *starts* when they
reach their rest room.....and finishes the specified minutes later
after arrival. With no flexibility unless the employee so wishes.

> If going out on a different train, the rest period is from whenever they
> finish clearing up the inbound train, to when they set foot aboard the
> outbound train - hopefully long before it departs. The costly resource
> here is the train, and the customer goodwill, not half an hour of
> employee time.

That's incorrect too - there is supplying / restocking time too -
which inevitably involves a picker & a deliverer....it's heavy on
staff costs. Plus someone to check cash against records....

> If there's no return trip, why the need for a break. It's the end of
> shift.

That is correct - but they get paid until they reach clocking off
point. And overtime kicks in immediately the train is delayed.

In message
<2262bacd-4261-4495-8d16-7adba05232af@e53g2000hsa..com>, at
08:17:07 on Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Chris <chrisjbates@>
remarked:
>On 24 Jun, 14:27, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> If they are going out on the same train, their rest period is the entire
>> time the train is turning round.
>
>Boy, you don't know much....the rest period only *starts* when they
>reach their rest room.....and finishes the specified minutes later
>after arrival. With no flexibility unless the employee so wishes.

I wasn't being pedantic about the time it takes to get from the train to
the rest room etc. The point is that if they are taking that exact train
back out, their rest period *process* has the whole time the train is in
the platform, there's no need to erode the time with checking the stock
etc, just lock up and come back later.

>> If going out on a different train, the rest period is from whenever they
>> finish clearing up the inbound train, to when they set foot aboard the
>> outbound train - hopefully long before it departs. The costly resource
>> here is the train, and the customer goodwill, not half an hour of
>> employee time.
>
>That's incorrect too - there is supplying / restocking time too -
>which inevitably involves a picker & a deliverer....it's heavy on
>staff costs. Plus someone to check cash against records....

Again, you misunderstand my point. They can check the stock and cash
after arrival at the terminus. Then go off and have their break. They
can then go off (to their new train) and do the restocking and checking
before it departs.

Meanwhile, the new crew can arrive (at the old train), and "check in"
and do the restocking, before the train departs.

Of course, as long as the train is at the terminus long enough for both
sets of activity.

>> If there's no return trip, why the need for a break. It's the end of
>> shift.
>
>That is correct - but they get paid until they reach clocking off
>point. And overtime kicks in immediately the train is delayed.

OK. So the reason they cash-up and stock-check so early is merely the
ToC wanting their shift (and pay) to end as soon as possible.
--
Roland Perry

On 24 Jun, 21:44, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:24:24 -0700 (PDT), Chris
>
> Which is fine, but the problem is it isn't usually 15 minutes.
> Penrith to Preston, for instance, is quite a bit more, and I was quite
> miffed at not being able to buy a coffee on board what claimed[1] to
> be an InterCity service.

Oh sorry, I forgot - the unions have set a minimum time for cashing
up, and it's longer if the train isn't terminating where thestaff turn
ends.

Don't believe me.....?.....

In message <4861c134$0$78072$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>, at 04:53:31 on
Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Dave Hillam <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> remarked:
>>Unfortunately, the RMT doesn't understand the word 'process'. They are
>>completely inflexible, insisting that their 'rest process' only starts
>>in the rest room for an agreed period before their members can 'clock
>>on' again.
>
>Well, quite. Staff should be instructed to start their meal break as
>soon as they step off the train, while walking down the platform.
>Indeed, any who fail to break into a quick trot should be lined up and
>shot as agents of Bob Crow.

That was not my proposition, which preserved the length of the rest
period wherever it is they have their official rest. The walking to and
fro would still be at the TOC's expense, sorry, customer's expense.
--
Roland Perry

In message
<40c39bb0-8144-42ee-a7c7-71c97c6a4cf6@p25g2000hsf..com>, at
00:23:38 on Wed, 25 Jun 2008, rob499@m remarked:
>Yes, you could keep a westbound train's shop open beyond Plymouth, but
>if the shop can't be stocked at Penzance then the staff have to travel
>back "on the cushions".

Low cost airlines seem to have solved this. They typically only stock up
at the UK end of their hops to the Continent and back. So simply put
enough stock on the train Plymouth to service the return trip. If
necessary, put half of it "in quarantine" westbound, so that there's
less risk of eastbound passengers finding the cupboard bare.
--
Roland Perry

In message <4316eab44f%Rail@greywall.>, at 10:56:03 on Wed,
25 Jun 2008, Graeme Wall <Rail@greywall.> remarked:
>> Low cost airlines seem to have solved this. They typically only stock up
>> at the UK end of their hops to the Continent and back.
>
>Not even that often, I've often heard announcements that they've run out of
>various items on the previous leg, especially on flights later in the day.
>However you are dealing with journies of up to 2 hours max generally, and a
>clientel that is mainly interested in cans of lager.

Both of which seem much like the profile for railway catering!

The early morning flights I take seem to do a reasonable trade in
sandwiches.
--
Roland Perry

In article <4316eab44f%Rail@greywall.>,
Graeme Wall <Rail@greywall.> wrote:

> In message <Lxmj5CAxygYIFApT@perry.co.uk>
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message
> > <40c39bb0-8144-42ee-a7c7-71c97c6a4cf6@p25g2000hsf..com>, at
> > 00:23:38 on Wed, 25 Jun 2008, rob499@m remarked:
> > >Yes, you could keep a westbound train's shop open beyond Plymouth, but
> > >if the shop can't be stocked at Penzance then the staff have to travel
> > >back "on the cushions".
> >
> > Low cost airlines seem to have solved this. They typically only stock up
> > at the UK end of their hops to the Continent and back.
>
> Not even that often, I've often heard announcements that they've run out of
> various items on the previous leg, especially on flights later in the day.
> However you are dealing with journies of up to 2 hours max generally, and a
> clientel that is mainly interested in cans of lager.

Not just the ones which are officially low cost. I had heard that one
ought to beware of Iberia's catering before I flew with them but I
hadn't realised how bad it could be. I only flew with them once and
there was quite an extensive menu in the seat pocket. By the time the
cabin crew got half way back in the plane you could choose one kind of
sandwich, nuts and coke.

Sam

In message <Sam.Wilson-E56756.14215625062008@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, at
14:21:56 on Wed, 25 Jun 2008, Sam Wilson <Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk> remarked:
>Not just the ones which are officially low cost. I had heard that one
>ought to beware of Iberia's catering before I flew with them but I
>hadn't realised how bad it could be. I only flew with them once and
>there was quite an extensive menu in the seat pocket. By the time the
>cabin crew got half way back in the plane you could choose one kind of
>sandwich, nuts and coke.

I haven't flown on a short-haul full-service airline that had any choice
of food, for many years. Many also tailor their offering by time of day
- so you might get a small sandwich if it was close to a mealtime, or a
small bag of nut/pretzels when they didn't consider it was a mealtime.
--
Roland Perry