Update: East West Rail (Western Section)

Tony Polson wrote:
> wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:49:06 +0100, Tony Polson
>> <docnews2011@> wrote:
>> There is a serious, perhaps even profitable, case for a bus Park and
>> Ride site near Bottle Dump Roundabout into Central Milton Keynes with
>> a dedicated bus lane on the A421. It's one of the areas of worst
>> congestion anywhere in MK in the morning.
>
>
> I think we are talking about the same place.
>
> Coming into MK from the west on the A421, turn right at Bottle Dump
> Roundabout and you will find yourself in Newton Longville. There is a
> huge landfill site there, some of which has been remediated as the
> site of a huge new housing development.
>
> The Newton Longville Park and Ride Station project was put forward to
> serve that future housing estate and act as a park and ride for people
> coming in to MK from Buckingham and points west on the A421. But I
> believe it was intended to be a railway park and ride rather than one
> using buses.
>
> Turn it into a bus park and ride and it begins to make sense.
>

Well yes. A railway park and ride is going to dump its passengers a good
15 minutes walk from the shopping centre which is fine with no bags on a
good day, but if they are laden with shopping or its raining then it
means catching a bus. Why not get a bus all the way?

As for congestion in MK - it makes me laugh how it's always advertised
as a congestion free place. It is, provided you don't travel at rush
hour. Pretty much like anywhere else in the country, then.

Neil Williams wrote:
> Dinky Earnshaw wrote:
>
>> As for congestion in MK - it makes me laugh how it's always advertised
>> as a congestion free place. It is, provided you don't travel at rush
>> hour. Pretty much like anywhere else in the country, then.
>
> Congestion at rush hour in MK is still *nothing* on what it is
> anywhere else. MK people get used to free flowing fast traffic, such
> that a 5 minute delay is considerable rather than normal. But as the
> place gets bigger (than originally planned - the original masterplan
> was completed last year, as I recall), it will get worse.
>
> Neil

Neil,

Have you tried getting to J14 in the evening rush recently? It's
probably quicker to walk from the V10 than driving - especially with the
so called "improvements" to the V11 over the last 9 months (complete
with an overrun of Network Rail magnitude)...

G

On Jun 21, 3:40 pm, Tony Polson <docnews2...@> wrote:
> The only way I can see it happening is if East-West Rail in some way
> facilitates the building of the Eco-Towns near Islip and in Marston
> Vale, and some branch of Government stumps up some free cash that it
> doesn't expect any return on. The Treasury doesn't often allow that.

Does the capacity exist to start services from Didcot Parkway?

It's a shame that any connection between the Varsity Line and the New
North Main Line would run on the Oxford-Risborough axis and not the
Bicester-Bletchley axis. If they did, you could try running an XC-type
service from Bicester or Banbury to Aylesbury/Bletchley/MK...

"TheOneKEA" <theonekea@> wrote in message
news:0566ac61-e2c7-4b05-82d8-efae71ce195b@k13g2000hse..com...
> On Jun 21, 3:40 pm, Tony Polson <docnews2...@> wrote:
>> The only way I can see it happening is if East-West Rail in some way
>> facilitates the building of the Eco-Towns near Islip and in Marston
>> Vale, and some branch of Government stumps up some free cash that it
>> doesn't expect any return on. The Treasury doesn't often allow that.
>
> Does the capacity exist to start services from Didcot Parkway?
>

You missed the bit in the earlier E?W rail report about building a new
dedicated platform at the north end of Oxford station, to avoid interfering
with the existing operations.

So that will probably be a no...

Paul

On Jun 23, 6:10 pm, "Paul Scott" <notvalidpmsc...@>
wrote:
> You missed the bit in the earlier E?W rail report about building a new
> dedicated platform at the north end of Oxford station, to avoid interfering
> with the existing operations.
>
> So that will probably be a no...

I didn't miss it - I also noticed that the desire exists to resignal
Oxford GW and run services from said station. If you can do that then
why not start services at Didcot?

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:22:33 -0700 (PDT), TheOneKEA
<theonekea@> wrote:

>I didn't miss it - I also noticed that the desire exists to resignal
>Oxford GW and run services from said station. If you can do that then
>why not start services at Didcot?

There was 3 services an hour from Didcot to Oxford until about 5 years
ago and platform 5 at Didcot is little used so there should be
capacity for it.

On 23 Jun, 23:37, "Paul Scott" <notvalidpmsc...@> wrote:
> Hasn't the ORR review of NR's businesss plan also mentioned deferral of the
> Didcot - Oxford (- Banbury?) resignalling though?

Yup - NR has three months to beef up it's argument to improve Oxford-
Didcot, including an up bay platform south of Platform 1. Otherwise,
with freight traffic, Oxford-Didcot is at capacity a lot of the time.

> But if services go all the way through Oxford, why not go to Reading,
> similarly, why have an overlapping service between Aylesbury and MK, and
> between Marylebone and Aylesbury Vale Parkway. Why not run that right
> through too?

Ahhh - but Crossrail will come from Reading to Oxford - which would
provide the cost benefit ratio to improve Didcot - Oxford, along with
the (further) increase in freight movements.....

An Oxford County Council report on the rail implications of the
proposed Weston Otmoor eco town makes fascinating reading.....I'm
checking whether it's actually in the public domain before quoting it
here. It''s rather long though.

On 24 Jun, 15:53, Tony Polson <docnews2...@> wrote:
> "Paul Scott" <notvalidpmsc...@> wrote:
>
> >But if services go all the way through Oxford, why not go to Reading,
> >similarly, why have an overlapping service between Aylesbury and MK, and
> >between Marylebone and Aylesbury Vale Parkway. Why not run that right
> >through too?
>
> I have no doubt that it will.  And there would be all sorts of
> possibilities for running from the East-West route to destinations
> beyond Oxford.  Reading - Oxford - MK Central might be a possibility,
> and even Bristol - Swindon - Oxford - MK Central, although the
> previous service to Oxford did very badly indeed.
>
> The trouble is that there are no traditional flows between these
> places that are of any great significance, so any new services will
> take a very long time to build up custom, if they ever do
>
> .

No capacity Oxford - Didcot & the GW Main Line at the moment.

Neil Williams wrote:
> Dinky Earnshaw wrote:
>
>> As for congestion in MK - it makes me laugh how it's always advertised
>> as a congestion free place. It is, provided you don't travel at rush
>> hour. Pretty much like anywhere else in the country, then.
>
> Congestion at rush hour in MK is still *nothing* on what it is
> anywhere else. MK people get used to free flowing fast traffic, such
> that a 5 minute delay is considerable rather than normal. But as the
> place gets bigger (than originally planned - the original masterplan
> was completed last year, as I recall), it will get worse.

Well I'm not sure which parts of MK you drive through daily but in the
parts I have to drive through each day it can take 10 minutes to go a
quarter of a mile if you hit them at the wrong time of day. No different
to comparable places such as Northampton, Swindon, Peterborough etc...

The grid road system is all very well when there's not much traffic
about. But

a) there are pinch points (anywhere that crosses the M1 or the A5)
b) none of the junctions are grade separated.

At the wrong time of day it can take 20-25 minutes to get across MK.
Sometimes it can take 10 minutes just to progress 1 grid square. At the
right time of day you can cross MK in barely 10 minutes. A doubling or
worse of journey time is pretty much the same as anywhere else.

Neil Williams wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:47:23 +0100, Gavin Hamilton
> <gavin@hamilton.powernet.co.remove.this.bit.uk> wrote:
>
>> Have you tried getting to J14 in the evening rush recently? It's
>> probably quicker to walk from the V10 than driving - especially with the
>> so called "improvements" to the V11 over the last 9 months (complete
>> with an overrun of Network Rail magnitude)...
>
> I expect this is caused by the roadworks and will improve a bit after
> they are complete. That said, it's a major case for the P&R to be
> reinstated (and done properly!) once the Coachway is rebuilt. If it's
> that bad, posh buses with aircon and leather seats and a dedicated bus
> lane anywhere there's any congestion on the route would probably tempt
> a lot of people in.

But employment in MK is widely distributed. Only a relatively small
percentage of workers are employed anywhere near where a Park & ride
would drop them off. And there would be a charge. And the buses would be
stuck in the same traffic. Outside of CMK most people do not have to pay
to park at their place of work.