RAIB report into the runaway of two wagons from Camden Road Tunnel

Another RAIB report which is a model of careful investigation, clarity and
(rare these days!) literacy.
But I can't help wondering why the train involved had to go wandering all
round Kent to get to Lewisham junction.
There appears to be a direct route going south from the wharf past the
Westcombe Park triangle, through a tunnel, to join the original route at
Lewisham via Blackheath .
I guess there must be some reason why it wasn't taken.
Does anyone know why ?

Jim Hawkins

"Peter Masson" <peter.masson1@> wrote in message
news:mZmdnbFL3OlggKrVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Jim Hawkins" <jimhawkins@manx.net> wrote in message
> news:aqudnTxjWsH-hqrVnZ2dnUVZ8tHinZ2d@supernews.com...
>> Another RAIB report which is a model of careful investigation, clarity
>> and
>> (rare these days!) literacy.
>> But I can't help wondering why the train involved had to go wandering all
>> round Kent to get to Lewisham junction.
>> There appears to be a direct route going south from the wharf past the
>> Westcombe Park triangle, through a tunnel, to join the original route at
>> Lewisham via Blackheath .
>> I guess there must be some reason why it wasn't taken.
>> Does anyone know why ?
>>
> AIUI the Angestein branch only connects into the North Kent Blackheath to
> Charlton line facing towards Charlton. At one time there was a triangle
> allowing direct movements towards Blackheath as well, but that has long
> gone.
>
> Peter
>

Just discovered that Murphy's wharf in Greenwich has a dedicated
railhead.

Jim Hawkins

On May 23, 8:41 pm, "Peter Masson" <peter.mass...@> wrote:
> "Jim Hawkins" <jimhawk...@manx.net> wrote in message
>
> news:aqudnTxjWsH-hqrVnZ2dnUVZ8tHinZ2d@supernews.com...> Another RAIB report which is a model of careful investigation, clarity and
> > (rare these days!) literacy.
> > But I can't help wondering why the train involved had to go wandering all
> > round Kent to get to Lewisham junction.
> > There appears to be a direct route going south from the wharf past the
> > Westcombe Park triangle, through a tunnel, to join the original route at
> > Lewisham via Blackheath .
> > I guess there must be some reason why it wasn't taken.
> > Does anyone know why ?
>
> AIUI the Angestein branch only connects into the North Kent Blackheath to
> Charlton line facing towards Charlton. At one time there was a triangle
> allowing direct movements towards Blackheath as well, but that has long
> gone.

But it continued being shown in the London A - Z certainly till within
the last ten years (don't know about the latest edition).

Last time I looked, they were still showing the flyover at Putney as
well, but at least they finally stopped showing the sidings to the
north of Loughton.

"Peter Masson" <peter.masson1@> wrote in message
news:ocOdnXk3f-ytbKfVnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "BH Williams" <bhwilliams@letra.co.uk> wrote
>> >
>> No sign of anything apart from plain track on the mainline at Greenwich
>> in
>> Quail- are you sure the Murphy's wharf of which you speak is not part of
> the
>> Angerstein complex? There are at least two terminals there- Aggregate
>> Industries, who bring stone in by rail from Leicetershire and possibly
>> the
>> Mendips; and Tarmac Topmix, who load locally-dredged sand and gravel for
>> rail transport to various terminals including Paddington . This latter
>> may
>> have been Murphy's originally, as Murphy's stock is now operated by EWS-
>> perhaps they have also divested themselves of the loading facilities as
>> well.
>
> I am pretty sure that both Murphy's and Angerstein Wharves are connected
> to
> the Angerstein branch. The only other rail-connected wharves on the Kent
> side would seem to be Cliffe, Thamesport (both served by the Grain branch)
> and Ridham Dock (off the Sheerness branch).
>
> Peter
>
>

I hadn't realized that Murphy's is almost certainly the wharf adjacent to
Angerstein,
which I had assumed to be part of Angerstein.
Google Earth shows that their railheads share the single line going down to
what's
left of the Westcombe Park triangle.
Sorry not to have investigated a bit more before I posted.

Jim Hawkins

"Jim Hawkins" <jimhawkins@manx.net> wrote in message
news:yNadnY9EEcIqgabVnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@supernews.co m...
>
> "Peter Masson" <peter.masson1@> wrote in message
> news:ocOdnXk3f-ytbKfVnZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "BH Williams" <bhwilliams@letra.co.uk> wrote
>>> >
>>> No sign of anything apart from plain track on the mainline at Greenwich
>>> in
>>> Quail- are you sure the Murphy's wharf of which you speak is not part of
>> the
>>> Angerstein complex? There are at least two terminals there- Aggregate
>>> Industries, who bring stone in by rail from Leicetershire and possibly
>>> the
>>> Mendips; and Tarmac Topmix, who load locally-dredged sand and gravel for
>>> rail transport to various terminals including Paddington . This latter
>>> may
>>> have been Murphy's originally, as Murphy's stock is now operated by EWS-
>>> perhaps they have also divested themselves of the loading facilities as
>>> well.
>>
>> I am pretty sure that both Murphy's and Angerstein Wharves are connected
>> to
>> the Angerstein branch. The only other rail-connected wharves on the Kent
>> side would seem to be Cliffe, Thamesport (both served by the Grain
>> branch)
>> and Ridham Dock (off the Sheerness branch).
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>
> I hadn't realized that Murphy's is almost certainly the wharf adjacent to
> Angerstein,
> which I had assumed to be part of Angerstein.
> Google Earth shows that their railheads share the single line going down
> to what's
> left of the Westcombe Park triangle.
> Sorry not to have investigated a bit more before I posted.
>
> Jim Hawkins
>
There are some stories about the Angerstein Wharf branch in Stephen Poole's
excellent ' Behind the Crumbling Edge'
Brian

"Jim Hawkins" <jimhawkins@manx.net> wrote
>
> Is blackheath tunnel no longer in use then ? I can't find anything about
it
> on Google.
>
Very much in use.

The first railway in the area was the London & Greenwich, opened in 1836.
However, because of opposition from the Greenwich Royal Observatory, it
could not be extended, so the North Kent Line took a route, from North Kent
Junction, via New Cross, Lewisham, Blackheath, and Blackheath Tuinnel to
Charlton and on through Woolwich, Erith, Dartford, and Gravesend to Strood.
This opened in 1849.

Mr Angerstein's railway opened in 1852, with a triangular junction with the
North Kent Line between the mouth of Blackheath Tunnel and Charlton, though
as stated, the western arm of this triangle was disconnected by 1890, being
retained as a siding. The SECR signal works were established in the
triangle.

Opposition from the Observatory was eventually overcome, and the line was
opened between Charlton and Maze Hill in 1873, and the connection through
between Greenwich and Maze Hill was completed in 1878.

Both the original route via Blackheath, and the Greenwich Line, are in
regular use for North Kent trains, though under the Thameslink proposals all
Greenwich route trains will use Cannon Street and not Charing Cross.

Peter

"Peter Masson" <peter.masson1@> wrote in message
news:Gp6dnRednJM24KHVnZ2dnUVZ8vCdnZ2d@bt.com...

> Both the original route via Blackheath, and the Greenwich Line, are in
> regular use for North Kent trains, though under the Thameslink proposals
> all
> Greenwich route trains will use Cannon Street and not Charing Cross.
>

Just as a supplementary point - has anyone noticed if the Thameslink
proposals will result in Cannon St opening on Sundays, or will the reduced
number of trains on Sundays allow Greenwich trains to go elsewhere ?

Paul