Virgin to end North Wales fares loophole

In message <cp-dnWmWZbzVKrjVnZ2dnUVZ8h-dnZ2d@bt.com>, at 09:55:04 on
Sat, 10 May 2008, David Buttery <rabbiteer@> remarked:
>There's an interesting quote in that Daily Post article from Arthur
>Leathley, director of communications at Virgin:
>
>"I don't think people wake up at 5am and decide they're going to London,
>they do know in advance."

That's a serious abuse of the expression "in advance". I generally know
"in advance" when I need to go to London (2hrs away), but sometimes it's
only the day before. If this Leathley character can guarantee I can buy
an AP fare the day before, for the train I need, then I'll play his
silly game.

I'm going to London one day next week, which I've known in advance for
about a month. What I *don't* know, however, is what time I'll be
available to come back.
--
Roland Perry

On 10 May, 17:54, "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote:
> "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote in message
>
> news:68m1jpF2tnorhU1@mid....
>
>
>
> > <trackmi...@> wrote in message
> >news:c1bee1f6-af44-4e09-8590-a5f6b4e6e3da@m73g2000hsh..com...
> > On 10 May, 15:47, Borked Pseudo Mailed <nob...@pseudo.borked.net>
> > wrote:
> >>> Anyway I do note that from 18th May the earliest arrival in London on a
> > Shotton to London SVR is 1027 and you can return at any time. whereas the
> > Chester to London is much more restrictive with a 1127 arrival in London
> > being the earliest on this ticket and the evening peak restriction
> > remains.
>
> > Still worth buying those Shotton to Londons from Chester me thinks!!!
>
> > Tim
>
> Also interestingly I was told a little while ago by a member of staff who
> works in the ticket office at Chester that staff had been instructed not to
> issue Shotton to London tickets in the morning (surely this is not allowed)
>
> They were also told not to sell car parking tickets to those that had bought
> Shotton to London tickets in advance either!!! (also a wrong I would have
> thought)
>
> I thought that ticket offices had to issue any ticket the customer asked for
> and not make judgements on the validity of such tickets?
>
> Tim

Isn't Chester an ATW station now? In which case it's neither here nor
there, surely- and better for ATW for travellers to buy the ticket
from their offices than online.

On 10 May, 17:54, "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote:
> "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote in message
>
> Also interestingly I was told a little while ago by a member of staff who
> works in the ticket office at Chester that staff had been instructed not to
> issue Shotton to London tickets in the morning (surely this is not allowed)
>
> They were also told not to sell car parking tickets to those that had bought
> Shotton to London tickets in advance either!!! (also a wrong I would have
> thought)
>
> I thought that ticket offices had to issue any ticket the customer asked for
> and not make judgements on the validity of such tickets?
>
> Tim

First Great Western at Reading refuse (are under instruction not) to
issue tickets for travel solely within Greater London - e.g. single/
return tickets as well as in-boundary travelcards - even on production
of a valid ticket for travel into London.

I assume this is due to some revenue risk issue and the inability of
their staff to carry out full and thorough ticket checks between
Reading and Paddington (both gated).


Jonathan

<j.p.harris@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:8693454c-491b-4385-95ce-41d31bae8f1c@p25g2000hsf..com...
> On 10 May, 17:54, "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote:
>> "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote in message
>>
>> Also interestingly I was told a little while ago by a member of staff who
>> works in the ticket office at Chester that staff had been instructed not
>> to
>> issue Shotton to London tickets in the morning (surely this is not
>> allowed)
>>
>> They were also told not to sell car parking tickets to those that had
>> bought
>> Shotton to London tickets in advance either!!! (also a wrong I would have
>> thought)
>>
>> I thought that ticket offices had to issue any ticket the customer asked
>> for
>> and not make judgements on the validity of such tickets?
>>
>> Tim
>
> First Great Western at Reading refuse (are under instruction not) to
> issue tickets for travel solely within Greater London - e.g. single/
> return tickets as well as in-boundary travelcards - even on production
> of a valid ticket for travel into London.
>
> I assume this is due to some revenue risk issue and the inability of
> their staff to carry out full and thorough ticket checks between
> Reading and Paddington (both gated).
>

Hmm! Aren't booking offices supposed to offer impartial retailing?

Tim
>
> Jonathan

Does this situation not exist on other lines into London, especially
when there is airline competition? Is it possible under FOI to ask who
is giving instructions not to issue tickets?

<trackmiles@> wrote in message
news:88c2cc21-c0ef-4f72-8550-ad0ae20ddbfe@c65g2000hsa..com...
> On 10 May, 22:11, "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote:
>> <j.p.har...@talk21.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:8693454c-491b-4385-95ce-41d31bae8f1c@p25g2000hsf..com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 10 May, 17:54, "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote:
>> >> "Tim Rogers" <nos...@sapm.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >> Also interestingly I was told a little while ago by a member of staff
>> >> who
>> >> works in the ticket office at Chester that staff had been instructed
>> >> not
>> >> to
>> >> issue Shotton to London tickets in the morning (surely this is not
>> >> allowed)
>>
>> >> They were also told not to sell car parking tickets to those that had
>> >> bought
>> >> Shotton to London tickets in advance either!!! (also a wrong I would
>> >> have
>> >> thought)
>>
>> >> I thought that ticket offices had to issue any ticket the customer
>> >> asked
>> >> for
>> >> and not make judgements on the validity of such tickets?
>>
>> >> Tim
>>
>> > First Great Western at Reading refuse (are under instruction not) to
>> > issue tickets for travel solely within Greater London - e.g. single/
>> > return tickets as well as in-boundary travelcards - even on production
>> > of a valid ticket for travel into London.
>>
>> > I assume this is due to some revenue risk issue and the inability of
>> > their staff to carry out full and thorough ticket checks between
>> > Reading and Paddington (both gated).
>>
>> Hmm! Aren't booking offices supposed to offer impartial retailing?
>>
>> Tim
>
> They are - but an enquiry at Chester along the lines of "What's the
> cheapest ticket from here to Euston for a train arriving before
> 10.30?" would only require them to look at the Chester - London ticket
> range and not tickets from other stations that "may" let the user get
> away with a lower fare - nor do they have to look at every possible
> range of combinations of tickets that may lower the fare. Imagine how
> long this would take - and the complexities involved with every
> alternative route and every possible split or splits of the tickets?
>
> Tony

Tony,

What I am saying is that apparently staff at Chester were told to refuse to
issue a Shotton to London ticket if a passenger asked for one. That has got
to be wrong?

Tim
>

On Sat, 10 May 2008 23:22:13 -0700 (PDT), Mwmbwls
<robertg.robinson@virgin.net> wrote:

>Does this situation not exist on other lines into London, especially
>when there is airline competition?

It seems quite normal for Saver restrictions to be more relaxed for
longer journeys (West Wales and the Cotswold Line spring to mind as
possibilities) especially in the evening peak, where I think it does
make some sense. For example, if I'm at London and ready to leave at
6pm for a train home, and I'm a daily commuter, then obviously I'd
want to be home as quickly as possible each evening, and I'd probably
have a valid ticket to do so. If I'm just making a leisure trip on a
Saver, and my journey home takes about an hour, then I'd probably be
quite happy to wait an hour or two until my ticket is valid. But if
home is a few hours away, then waiting for my Saver to be valid would
mean getting home very late in the evening. And of course, some more
distant places have their last trains in the evening peak.

Of course,the Shotton situation refers to the morning peak, where none
of this logic applies as the London arrival times are the same!

"Clive D. W. Feather" <clive@on-the-train.> wrote

> You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in
> the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the
> ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also
> end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket)
> before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may
> not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is
> prohibited, in which case the relevant Train Companies will make this
> clear in their notices and other publications.
>
The new conditions for Advance tickets from 18 May make it clear that these
will not be valid for terminating short, or starting at a station after that
named on the ticket. It is not clear whether this applies to the
'Connections' part of an 'and connections' ticket, e.g. if I buy an Advance
ticket Longfield to Edinburgh (route NXEC and connections +) can I travel
from Longfield earlier than the 'suggested service', and can I start from
Swanley instead of Longfield (e.g if I am offered a lift to Swanley
station)?

I hope that the right to start 'long' or terminate short will not be
withdrawn from Off-peak and Anytime tickets when their new conditions come
into force in September, though, regrettably, I wouldn't be surprised if
rights to break and resume get withdrawn.

Peter

In message <q5ydnV4FHtMvkrrVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@bt.com>, at 16:25:06 on
Sun, 11 May 2008, Peter Masson <peter.masson1@> remarked:
>The new conditions for Advance tickets from 18 May make it clear that these
>will not be valid for terminating short, or starting at a station after that
>named on the ticket. It is not clear whether this applies to the
>'Connections' part of an 'and connections' ticket, e.g. if I buy an Advance
>ticket Longfield to Edinburgh (route NXEC and connections +) can I travel
>from Longfield earlier than the 'suggested service',

I have an "and connections" ticket here where the first leg (which is
undeniably the 'and connection' part of the trip) has been issued with a
compulsory reservation.

My conclusion therefore is that if you have such a "compulsory
reservation" coupon then you have to use it, and [this is the important
bit] if you don't, then you needn't.
--
Roland Perry

Charlie Hulme wrote:
> ...
> Later I discovered that a

This illustrates why rail fares are such a disaster.

My own sister, who is retired, could easily travel by
train to visit her grandchildren since they live easy
walking distance from the station.

But she does not, she drives because "The railway
fares are so complicated that I can't afford the time
and energy to understand them. Since I don't know
whether I'm being ripped-off or not by any particular
fares then I drive instead. Although this costs more at
least I know I'm not being cheated by greedy railway
companies".

That's how the ordinary person sees it.

Simplified fares ought surely mean higher fares for
those who do the most shopping around and lower fares
for those who do the least.