Virgin to end North Wales fares loophole

> Agreed. Seems the plan in this country is to try and turn the railways
> into
> Airlines where most people book in advance. If the railways are to be
> competitive to road transport then cheap walk on fares should be
> available.
>


I couldn't agree more, its not like they even usde the advance purchase data
to add more stock to the busy trains or run relief services.



Tom Burton

"Tom Burton" <thomasburton7@freezingcoldmail.com> wrote
>
> I couldn't agree more, its not like they even usde the advance purchase
data
> to add more stock to the busy trains or run relief services.
>
That's a misunderstanding of the purpose of advance purchase fares. They are
intended to attract passengers who would not travel at higher walk-on fares
to fill seats which would otherwise be empty, and to divert passengers who
would be prepared to pay walk-on fares, but who can be flexible about the
time at which they travel, from crowded to less crowded trains.

Indeed, TOCs should not be able to get any data from sales of advance
purchase fares about busy trains, because they should not be offering
advance purchase fares on trains they can fill at walk-on fares.

Peter

trackmiles@ wrote:

> As a further example - when WSMR ran their press "launch" train I
> needed to get to Wrexham from Manchester via Crewe but return from
> Shrewsbury (via Crewe). The best value ticket I could find was a
> return from Manchester to Gobowen (ticket office at Man Picc: "where
> on earth is that?!")

Thet's the secret of any possibly-dubious circular journey: book
to the most obscure place (roughly half way round the route) you can
think of! Works every time ;-)

Useful when cycling, too. A CDR Stockport - Alsager was a
cheap way to go by train Stockport - Holmes Chapel, then
cycle to Kidsgrove and return by train from there to
Cheadle Hulme. (Killer footbridge at Kidsgrove though!)

Charlie

On May 11, 5:04 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <q5ydnV4FHtMvkrrVnZ2dnUVZ8v3in...@bt.com>, at 16:25:06 on
> Sun, 11 May 2008, Peter Masson <peter.mass...@> remarked:
>
> >The new conditions for Advance tickets from 18 May make it clear that these
> >will not be valid for terminating short, or starting at a station after that
> >named on the ticket. It is not clear whether this applies to the
> >'Connections' part of an 'and connections' ticket, e.g. if I buy an Advance
> >ticket Longfield to Edinburgh (route NXEC and connections +) can I travel
> >from Longfield earlier than the 'suggested service',
>
> I have an "and connections" ticket here where the first leg (which is
> undeniably the 'and connection' part of the trip) has been issued with a
> compulsory reservation.
>
> My conclusion therefore is that if you have such a "compulsory
> reservation" coupon then you have to use it, and [this is the important
> bit] if you don't, then you needn't.

Correct. But you do need to srart from Longfield, and nowhere else.

Neil Williams wrote:
> On 12 May, 10:14, Charlie Hulme <i...@davenportstation.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Thet's the secret of any possibly-dubious circular journey: book
>> to the most obscure place (roughly half way round the route) you can
>> think of! Works every time ;-)
>
> The *real* secret of it would be for the railway to stop penalising
> its passengers and follow the low-cost airlines completely in making
> *all* fares singles. This has been overdue for years, and would stop
> the silliness over "buying past" and being penalised for circular
> journeys straight away.

Depends on how these single fares were calculated! They'd have to be
very much lower for local journeys than they are now to replace
Cheap Day Returns.

Charlie

Neil Williams wrote:
> Charlie Hulme wrote:
>
>> Depends on how these single fares were calculated! They'd have to be
>> very much lower for local journeys than they are now to replace
>> Cheap Day Returns.
>
> I see no reason why, assuming evening peak restrictions or an increase
> in the Standard Day Single price to offset the loss from those no
> longer buying SDRs, a single should not be available at 50% of the
> price of all current return tickets.
>

Consider Davenport - Manchester (approx. 7 miles):

Single before 9:30 = 2.40
Single after 9:30 = 2.30

Day Return, out before 9:30 = 4.40
Day Return, after 9:30 (no evening restriction): 2.40
Evening return, out between 18:30 and 21:00 : 1.20

(Greater Manchester Rail Day Ranger for all trains in the area
after 9:30 = 3.80, after 18:30 = 1.90)

How (roughly) would you envisage replacing these under your
system without increasing the price of an off-peak
return journey?

I note that you are suggesting evening peak restrictions:
IMO this would be a very bad thing for many users returning
from shopping, matinee performances, etc. and lead to
even more desertion to buses. (Stagecoach Dayrider =
3.00 at any time, any bus in South Manchester.)

Charlie

>
> The answer in the UK is a simple, standard, lightweight train to allow
> longer trains to operate.  It could, let's say, be made up of
> individual units able to make up semi-fixed formations of the required
> length (let's call them "coaches") and separate, interchangeable power
> units (how about "locomotives")?  Should be quite a lot cheaper than
> Voyagers and the likes.
>
> Neil

Well now there's a novel idea. Many European railways have these. And
it isn't falling out of favour either. They are building more. The
Europeans are also happy to have coaches added to trains at peak
times.

So why can't they do that in the UK? Oh I forgot the railway is all
about maximising revenue and nothing to do with trying to get people
out of their cars and on the trains. Look at the draconian ticket
restrictions on AXC from next weekend; hardly a way of encouraging
people to travel by rail is it?

It seems that the TOCs/dfT plan for an increase in revenue from
passenger growth but don't authorise the building of more trains to
cope. As an example I can never understand why the 390s were only
planned to be built with 9 coaches, why not 12 or more coaches from
the start (I seem to remember the planned APT formations were that
sort of length). That would really be forward thinking!!

C

Neil Williams wrote:
> Charlie Hulme wrote:
>
>> Single before 9:30 = 2.40
>> Single after 9:30 = 2.30
>>
>> Day Return, out before 9:30 = 4.40
>> Day Return, after 9:30 (no evening restriction): 2.40
>> Evening return, out between 18:30 and 21:00 : 1.20
>>
>> (Greater Manchester Rail Day Ranger for all trains in the area
>> after 9:30 = 3.80, after 18:30 = 1.90)
> >
>> How (roughly) would you envisage replacing these under your
>> system without increasing the price of an off-peak
>> return journey?
>
> OK, here goes, ignoring the fact that I would, given the chance,
> implement a full Verbundtarif across Manchester and all other cities
> making bus and train[1] fares one and the same:-
>
> Single before 9:30: 3.20
> Single after 9:30: 1.20

Thanks - I understand the idea now. Presumably I could buy both
tickets at my start station, sort of like a 'return' ticket?

Charlie