East Coast Main Line continues to slow down ! (2)

Further to my previous post, will any of the aspiring ECML franchisees
offer any hope for faster journey times? It seems we can only look at
their record on the current franchises they hold to find possible
clues.

First doesn't offer much hope looking at their record on S Wales
services. Swansea services call at reading and Swindon, even when
these are followed 3 minutes later by Cheltenham trains making these
same calls! No attempt has been made to speed up Bristol and S Wales
services that are up to 20 mins slower than 30 years ago.

National Express wants 100mph restricted DMUs to replace 125 Voyagers
on Cross Country so they don't seem to rate faster journey times as
important if they win that franchise. They also destroyed the fast/
semi-fast pattern on Norwich services, replacing it with a ½-hourly
semi-fast pattern.

I think Arriva's only inter-city type service is Cardiff/Manchester,
but all these trains call at the small towns and villages between
Hereford and Shrewsbury.

The interesting applicant is Virgin/Stagecoach (with GNER). But would
what happens depend on which part - Virgin or Stagecoach - leads?
Virgin on the West Coast has impressive ambitions to speed up Glasgow
services with most non-stop south of Warrington, and some calling only
at Preston and Carlisle. However Stagecoach on SWT has no fast limited
stop services to Portsmouth and Southampton & Bournemouth, running
instead what is in effect a ½-hourly semi-fast service on both routes.

On 17 Jun, 22:16, Philip <phi...@walkerpj.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Further to my previous post, will any of the aspiring ECML franchisees
> offer any hope for faster journey times? It seems we can only look at
> their record on the current franchises they hold to find possible
> clues.
>
> First doesn't offer much hope looking at their record on S Wales
> services. Swansea services call at reading and Swindon, even when
> these are followed 3 minutes later by Cheltenham trains making these
> same calls! No attempt has been made to speed up Bristol and S Wales
> services that are up to 20 mins slower than 30 years ago.
>
> National Express wants 100mph restricted DMUs to replace 125 Voyagers
> on Cross Country so they don't seem to rate faster journey times as
> important if they win that franchise. They also destroyed the fast/
> semi-fast pattern on Norwich services, replacing it with a ½-hourly
> semi-fast pattern.
>
> I think Arriva's only inter-city type service is Cardiff/Manchester,
> but all these trains call at the small towns and villages between
> Hereford and Shrewsbury.
>
> The interesting applicant is Virgin/Stagecoach (with GNER). But would
> what happens depend on which part - Virgin or Stagecoach - leads?
> Virgin on the West Coast has impressive ambitions to speed up Glasgow
> services with most non-stop south of Warrington, and some calling only
> at Preston and Carlisle. However Stagecoach on SWT has no fast limited
> stop services to Portsmouth and Southampton & Bournemouth, running
> instead what is in effect a ½-hourly semi-fast service on both routes.

3rd paragraph: I meant 125mph Voyagers!!

On 17 Jun, 22:16, Philip <phi...@walkerpj.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Further to my previous post, will any of the aspiring ECML franchisees
> offer any hope for faster journey times? It seems we can only look at
> their record on the current franchises they hold to find possible
> clues.
>
> First doesn't offer much hope looking at their record on S Wales
> services. Swansea services call at reading and Swindon, even when
> these are followed 3 minutes later by Cheltenham trains making these
> same calls! No attempt has been made to speed up Bristol and S Wales
> services that are up to 20 mins slower than 30 years ago.
>
> National Express wants 100mph restricted DMUs to replace 125 Voyagers
> on Cross Country so they don't seem to rate faster journey times as
> important if they win that franchise. They also destroyed the fast/
> semi-fast pattern on Norwich services, replacing it with a ½-hourly
> semi-fast pattern.
>
> I think Arriva's only inter-city type service is Cardiff/Manchester,
> but all these trains call at the small towns and villages between
> Hereford and Shrewsbury.
>
> The interesting applicant is Virgin/Stagecoach (with GNER). But would
> what happens depend on which part - Virgin or Stagecoach - leads?
> Virgin on the West Coast has impressive ambitions to speed up Glasgow
> services with most non-stop south of Warrington, and some calling only
> at Preston and Carlisle. However Stagecoach on SWT has no fast limited
> stop services to Portsmouth and Southampton & Bournemouth, running
> instead what is in effect a ½-hourly semi-fast service on both routes.


Its nothing to do with the bidders - the DfT has given them the
timetable to bid for.. all the DfT can evaluate on is a) the bottom
line financially and b) a little bit of how they promise to improve
performance.
That's about it.
(oh, and maybe a bit of c) helping DfT to evaluate HST2 / IEP by using
prototype sets on the ECML..)

PLEASE let's stop all this "will the new franchisee do X or Y?" DfT
sets all the timetables now - even the promises by Virgin West Coast
are actually promises to deliver whatever DfT has decided it will do,
having already drawn up the next timetables..

Tony

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:16:23, Philip <philip@walkerpj.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
>
>First doesn't offer much hope looking at their record on S Wales
>services. Swansea services call at reading and Swindon, even when
>these are followed 3 minutes later by Cheltenham trains making these
>same calls!

It may surprise you, but there are people who make intermediate
journeys between Reading, Swindon and South Wales! FGW are responding
to customer demand (and making best use of their resources by
spreading passenger loads).

Paul Harley

In article <1182114983.432297.175390@k79g2000hse. .com>,
philip@walkerpj.freeserve.co.uk says...
> Further to my previous post, will any of the aspiring ECML franchisees
> offer any hope for faster journey times? It seems we can only look at
> their record on the current franchises they hold to find possible
> clues.
>
> First doesn't offer much hope looking at their record on S Wales
> services. Swansea services call at reading and Swindon, even when
> these are followed 3 minutes later by Cheltenham trains making these
> same calls! No attempt has been made to speed up Bristol and S Wales
> services that are up to 20 mins slower than 30 years ago.

It depends whether saving a few minutes calling at these stations will
generate enough additional custom to replace the sizable market who join
the South Wales services at Reading and Swindon. Personally I think this
is very unlikely.

Frequency can be just as important as journey time in attracting
customers, so pulling out stops may well force more people onto the
roads / airlines. While the Bristol / S Wales may take longer they are
both now half hourly and usage seems far higher than before.

Duncan

Philip wrote:
> Further to my previous post, will any of the aspiring ECML franchisees
> offer any hope for faster journey times? It seems we can only look at
> their record on the current franchises they hold to find possible
> clues.
>
> First doesn't offer much hope looking at their record on S Wales
> services. Swansea services call at reading and Swindon, even when
> these are followed 3 minutes later by Cheltenham trains making these
> same calls! No attempt has been made to speed up Bristol and S Wales
> services that are up to 20 mins slower than 30 years ago.
>
> National Express wants 100mph restricted DMUs to replace 125 Voyagers
> on Cross Country so they don't seem to rate faster journey times as
> important if they win that franchise. They also destroyed the fast/
> semi-fast pattern on Norwich services, replacing it with a ½-hourly
> semi-fast pattern.
>
> I think Arriva's only inter-city type service is Cardiff/Manchester,
> but all these trains call at the small towns and villages between
> Hereford and Shrewsbury.
>
> The interesting applicant is Virgin/Stagecoach (with GNER). But would
> what happens depend on which part - Virgin or Stagecoach - leads?
> Virgin on the West Coast has impressive ambitions to speed up Glasgow
> services with most non-stop south of Warrington, and some calling only
> at Preston and Carlisle. However Stagecoach on SWT has no fast limited
> stop services to Portsmouth and Southampton & Bournemouth, running
> instead what is in effect a ½-hourly semi-fast service on both routes.
>

There is a rumour going around that Arriva have got CrossCountry

>
> PLEASE let's stop all this "will the new franchisee do X or Y?" DfT
> sets all the timetables now - even the promises by Virgin West Coast
> are actually promises to deliver whatever DfT has decided it will do,
> having already drawn up the next timetables..
>

PLEASE let's stop all this "will the DfT do X or Y?" It's New Labour
not the DfT.

So we can be clear where the blame really lies with this 'do nothing
on Transport' Government.

>
> I do wonder whether journey time is anything like as important for the
> routes where there is no serious competition from air travel.
>

Trouble is, once journey time becomes unimportant it's amazing how
quickly air competition can appear.

Newquay is a good example of that with the result that FGW have
introduced a daily through train, unheard of for many years.

Of course, it's a bit late in the day to now decide that Newquay
revenue is important to them.

In message <as6dnQdMSbpp-OvbnZ2dnUVZ8qqlnZ2d@bt.com>, at 12:01:51 on
Mon, 18 Jun 2007, Peter Fox <peterfoxdore@> remarked:
>National Express wants 100mph restricted DMUs to replace 125 Voyagers on
>Cross Country.
>
>How do you know that? Might not the 100 mph units be for lines which don't
>need 125 mph like Birmingham - Stansted (also Birmingham - Reading?

Birmingham-Stansted has already been "awarded" the ex-MML Turbostars,
according to the usual suspects.
--
Roland Perry

>
> I thought there were 100+mph tilting sections north of Oxford? (also,
> making the trains compatible with GW ATP would allow 125mph running
> between Didcot and Reading...)
>

Yes but no.

First you need tilt north of Oxford and that means a five car unit
trouble is most services terminating at Reading have four cars.

Then between Didcot and Reading you need the fast lines which means
crossing the whole layout West of Didcot.

But the real stopper is that none of the XC services need 125mph to
keep time.

Perhaps the best opportunity for speed with these services is actually
north of Birmingham towards Manchester but there are too many stops (I
believe even Stone eventually).

Two services an hour but neither are fast say between Wolverhampton
and Stockport but then why would you want to make use of all that
highly expensive 125 mph infrastructure.

As things stand, Birmingham has 125mph infrastructure to Manchester
and Liverpool and Manchester and Liverpool have 125mph infrastructure
to Scotland none of which is to be exploited - excellent value this
WCML upgrade.