Why are London Transport fares so confusing

I went to the ticket office at Harrow on the Hill, and told him to put
harrow to Upminster return on my PAYG Oyster card, and sell me Upminster to
Grays return ticked.

He asked me why I just didn't buy a travel card to Grays.

I said it would be the cost, since a paper ticket is way more expensive than
an oyster card. (however I never did get the price of a travelcard to Grays
combined)

He then sold me a travel card which was discounted against my young persons
rail card (I was amazed at this, cant find anything on TFLs website about
this) This cost £4.80, which was pretty impressive.

I then bought a cheap day return from Upminster to Grays with a YP card at
Fenchurch street. This cost £2.80
C2C is pretty impressive too, modern, cleanest trains I've seen, quiet and
efficient.

On the same subject, I am going from Harrow on the Hill to Cambridge,

any fare busting ideas? I know there is a cheap day return to Cambs ~£10 ,
and Zone 5 to 1 return will cost me £4 I think on oyster PAYG

cheers

Aosmosis wrote:

> I went to the ticket office at Harrow on the Hill, and told him to put
> harrow to Upminster return on my PAYG Oyster card, and sell me Upminster to
> Grays return ticked.
>
> He asked me why I just didn't buy a travel card to Grays.
>
> I said it would be the cost, since a paper ticket is way more expensive than
> an oyster card. (however I never did get the price of a travelcard to Grays
> combined)
>
> He then sold me a travel card which was discounted against my young persons
> rail card (I was amazed at this, cant find anything on TFLs website about
> this) This cost £4.80, which was pretty impressive.

You can't get a travelcard *to* Grays, the equivalent is All Zones plus
BZ6 to Grays (or Upminster to Grays if that is cheaper).

TfL won't want to advertise the fact that using a YP railcard will get
you cheaper fares, it's only available at NR stations (including most -
if not all - that have NR trains but are LU operated). TfL's main
concern appears to be raising revenue using whatever means possible.

> I then bought a cheap day return from Upminster to Grays with a YP card at
> Fenchurch street. This cost £2.80
> C2C is pretty impressive too, modern, cleanest trains I've seen, quiet and
> efficient.

Harrow-on-the-Hill to Grays SDR is £9.40, so you saved money by asking
for the travelcard combination. If you were travelling at peak time
then the SDR may be cheaper than a peak travelcard.

However it is cheaper, and quicker (if it's not out of your way), to
get Harrow & Wealdstone to Grays, a CDR is £6.25 off-peak, but the SDR
is more expensive at 11.05.

It is typical (but not always the case) for combinations of tickets to
be cheaper than a through ticket, and it is common for fares to be
illogical and confusing.

>
> On the same subject, I am going from Harrow on the Hill to Cambridge,
>
> any fare busting ideas? I know there is a cheap day return to Cambs ~£10 ,
> and Zone 5 to 1 return will cost me £4 I think on oyster PAYG

Various options including:

HARROW-ON-THE-HILL to CAMBRIDGE
STANDARD DAY RETURN 16.90

HARROW & WEALDSTONE to CAMBRIDGE
CHEAP DAY RETURN 13.20

Another option is purchasing a YP all-zones travelcard (£4.80) and
Boundary Zone 6 to Cambridge, however I can't look up BZ6 fares as I
don't have a southern region fares manual, it is likely to be approx
£10-11.

"Yorkie" <yorky_91.uk> wrote in message
news:1151053043.426882.234690@r2g2000cwb. ...
Aosmosis wrote:

> I went to the ticket office at Harrow on the Hill, and told him to put
> harrow to Upminster return on my PAYG Oyster card, and sell me Upminster
> to
> Grays return ticked.
>
> He asked me why I just didn't buy a travel card to Grays.
>
> I said it would be the cost, since a paper ticket is way more expensive
> than
> an oyster card. (however I never did get the price of a travelcard to
> Grays
> combined)
>
> He then sold me a travel card which was discounted against my young
> persons
> rail card (I was amazed at this, cant find anything on TFLs website about
> this) This cost £4.80, which was pretty impressive.

You can't get a travelcard *to* Grays, the equivalent is All Zones plus
BZ6 to Grays (or Upminster to Grays if that is cheaper).

TfL won't want to advertise the fact that using a YP railcard will get
you cheaper fares, it's only available at NR stations (including most -
if not all - that have NR trains but are LU operated). TfL's main
concern appears to be raising revenue using whatever means possible.

> I then bought a cheap day return from Upminster to Grays with a YP card at
> Fenchurch street. This cost £2.80
> C2C is pretty impressive too, modern, cleanest trains I've seen, quiet and
> efficient.

Harrow-on-the-Hill to Grays SDR is £9.40, so you saved money by asking
for the travelcard combination. If you were travelling at peak time
then the SDR may be cheaper than a peak travelcard.

However it is cheaper, and quicker (if it's not out of your way), to
get Harrow & Wealdstone to Grays, a CDR is £6.25 off-peak, but the SDR
is more expensive at 11.05.

It is typical (but not always the case) for combinations of tickets to
be cheaper than a through ticket, and it is common for fares to be
illogical and confusing.

>
> On the same subject, I am going from Harrow on the Hill to Cambridge,
>
> any fare busting ideas? I know there is a cheap day return to Cambs ~£10 ,
> and Zone 5 to 1 return will cost me £4 I think on oyster PAYG

Various options including:

HARROW-ON-THE-HILL to CAMBRIDGE
STANDARD DAY RETURN 16.90

HARROW & WEALDSTONE to CAMBRIDGE
CHEAP DAY RETURN 13.20

Another option is purchasing a YP all-zones travelcard (£4.80) and
Boundary Zone 6 to Cambridge, however I can't look up BZ6 fares as I
don't have a southern region fares manual, it is likely to be approx
£10-11.


Thanks, I just looked at the travel card ticket and it says

>>123456D<<

So could this have been used upto zone D?

Shame Grays doesnt come into this fare stucture :(

Paul Ebbens wrote:
> Interesting I thought there was no minimum fare at all in July & August with
> YPRC?

There isn't on normal tickets, ODTCs are seperate.