Grand Central

A '222' is hardly what GC have been promising all these years. We were
promised 'true intercity trains' which obviously means mk3 stock. It's
quite a letdown, everyone knows the 222's don't offer the luxuries of
mk3 stock and GC were supposed to deliver that to destinations that
have never had Intercity trains, which was what made them so exciting.

<therunawayminetrain@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1118912358.616477.296920@g47g2000cwa. o...
> A '222' is hardly what GC have been promising all these years. We were
> promised 'true intercity trains' which obviously means mk3 stock. It's
> quite a letdown, everyone knows the 222's don't offer the luxuries of
> mk3 stock and GC were supposed to deliver that to destinations that
> have never had Intercity trains, which was what made them so exciting.

Many of the objectors to GC have expressed concern that such a small
operator may not have the resources to rescue sets when the sit down - and
the view from operators of HST fleets was that this may be a major risk.
GNER has its Thunderbirds in place etc. but GC would struggle to fund
permanent rescue locos and if you read the transcript of the "hearings" re.
their failed attempt to start TransPennine trains this was a major part of
the proceedings. It may be that offering 5-car sets that could keep to
timings on the ECML on only 3 cars offers a more robust solution that would
remove objections from other operators. MML Meridians achieved an MPC figure
of 39,703 last period - well above even the best HST sets.

Its a clever move which quashes many of the objections very simply.

Of course we haven't seen what sort of interior GC would offer...

TM

In message <d8sru3$a8f$1$8300dec7@news.beeb.net>, Tony Miles
<tonymiles@beeb.net> writes

>Many of the objectors to GC have expressed concern that such a small
>operator may not have the resources to rescue sets when the sit down - and
>the view from operators of HST fleets was that this may be a major risk.
[Snip]
> It may be that offering 5-car sets that could keep to
>timings on the ECML on only 3 cars offers a more robust solution that would
>remove objections from other operators. MML Meridians achieved an MPC figure
>of 39,703 last period - well above even the best HST sets.
>
>Its a clever move which quashes many of the objections very simply.
>
Now what's the betting they specify Meridians that won't inter-work with
Hull Trains' sets, so one can't be used to rescue the other?
--
Daniel (a.k.a Spyke)
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. Replace the bit before the
@ with 'daniel' to get through. The opinions expressed in this post do not
necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.

"Peter Fox" <peterfoxdore@> wrote in message
news:d8u111$blq$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> "Tony Miles" <tonymiles@beeb.net> wrote in message
> news:d8sru3$a8f$1$8300dec7@news.beeb.net...
>>
>> <therunawayminetrain@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:1118912358.616477.296920@g47g2000cwa. o...
>>> A '222' is hardly what GC have been promising all these years. We were
>>> promised 'true intercity trains' which obviously means mk3 stock. It's
>>> quite a letdown, everyone knows the 222's don't offer the luxuries of
>>> mk3 stock and GC were supposed to deliver that to destinations that
>>> have never had Intercity trains, which was what made them so exciting.
>>
>> Many of the objectors to GC have expressed concern that such a small
>> operator may not have the resources to rescue sets when the sit down -
>> and
>> the view from operators of HST fleets was that this may be a major risk.
>> GNER has its Thunderbirds in place etc. but GC would struggle to fund
>> permanent rescue locos and if you read the transcript of the "hearings"
>> re.
>> their failed attempt to start TransPennine trains this was a major part
>> of
>> the proceedings. It may be that offering 5-car sets that could keep to
>> timings on the ECML on only 3 cars offers a more robust solution that
>> would
>> remove objections from other operators. MML Meridians achieved an MPC
>> figure
>> of 39,703 last period - well above even the best HST sets.
>>
>> Its a clever move which quashes many of the objections very simply.
>
> The 67s are quite reliable. That's why GC changed from unrefurbished HSTs.

I thought GC's proposals were to use refurbished HSTs (both power cars and
trailer).

"Tony Miles" <tonymiles@beeb.net> wrote in message
news:d8sru3$a8f$1$8300dec7@news.beeb.net...
>
> <therunawayminetrain@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1118912358.616477.296920@g47g2000cwa. o...
>> A '222' is hardly what GC have been promising all these years. We were
>> promised 'true intercity trains' which obviously means mk3 stock. It's
>> quite a letdown, everyone knows the 222's don't offer the luxuries of
>> mk3 stock and GC were supposed to deliver that to destinations that
>> have never had Intercity trains, which was what made them so exciting.
>
> Many of the objectors to GC have expressed concern that such a small
> operator may not have the resources to rescue sets when the sit down - and
> the view from operators of HST fleets was that this may be a major risk.
> GNER has its Thunderbirds in place etc. but GC would struggle to fund
> permanent rescue locos and if you read the transcript of the "hearings"
> re.
> their failed attempt to start TransPennine trains this was a major part of
> the proceedings. It may be that offering 5-car sets that could keep to
> timings on the ECML on only 3 cars offers a more robust solution that
> would
> remove objections from other operators. MML Meridians achieved an MPC
> figure
> of 39,703 last period - well above even the best HST sets.
>
> Its a clever move which quashes many of the objections very simply.
>
> Of course we haven't seen what sort of interior GC would offer...

Also, don't forget that, based on Voyager experience, leasing and track
access charges will rise in comparison with those for an HST, which must
have an impact on the viability of the project.

Incidentally, ISTR that GNER's objections were based on comparing "apples
with oranges" as they compared unrefurbished HSTs as against the refurbished
version proposed by GC. But why let the facts get in the way?