Will I get into trouble?

I hold a York-Conisbrough season ticket, and when travelling south I
normally buy tickets to travel from Doncaster (where I obviously have
to change to reach Conisbrough, with its lovely castle), which saves a
few quid.

I have a Doncaster-Cheltenham Saver Return for outward travel tomorrow
and return on Monday. The direct York-Cheltenham Virgin XCs don't call
at Donny on either day. Is it still ok to use both tickets on the one
service, or will I have to pay some kind of excess?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

"ns" <nicholas.robin.smith@> wrote in message
news:1117233653.105124.258390@g14g2000cwa. o...
> I hold a York-Conisbrough season ticket, and when travelling south I
> normally buy tickets to travel from Doncaster (where I obviously have
> to change to reach Conisbrough, with its lovely castle), which saves a
> few quid.
>
> I have a Doncaster-Cheltenham Saver Return for outward travel tomorrow
> and return on Monday. The direct York-Cheltenham Virgin XCs don't call
> at Donny on either day. Is it still ok to use both tickets on the one
> service, or will I have to pay some kind of excess?
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide!

I always thought for a pair of tickets ending and starting at Doncaster to
be valid, then the train had to actually call at Doncaster.

Marcus

"Marcus Fox" <please-reply-via-newsgroup-th@-i-posted-to.com> writes:

> I always thought for a pair of tickets ending and starting at Doncaster to
> be valid, then the train had to actually call at Doncaster.

Not if one is a season and the other is not.

On 27 May 2005 15:40:53 -0700, "ns" <nicholas.robin.smith@>
wrote:

>I hold a York-Conisbrough season ticket, and when travelling south I
>normally buy tickets to travel from Doncaster (where I obviously have
>to change to reach Conisbrough, with its lovely castle), which saves a
>few quid.
>
>I have a Doncaster-Cheltenham Saver Return for outward travel tomorrow
>and return on Monday. The direct York-Cheltenham Virgin XCs don't call
>at Donny on either day. Is it still ok to use both tickets on the one
>service, or will I have to pay some kind of excess?
>
>Thanks for any help you can provide!
So.......any of us on here say *yes* no problem you will believe
it??!!!
Then when you get on board and Mr VT Manager comes down , and you have
an argument, you are going to say.....I know I can, they told me on
Usenet Newsgroups! Ye Gods What next! When will people learn that
if it is a serious question, and it affects their journey, you do not
ask on here, you as the train company you are travelling with, you
get a reference, time, date and name of the person , then you have a
valid case, and that means the train company, not trainline dot com
or other on line services.
The number of times we have had altercations on the
Leeds-York-Newcastle services with Ohhhh I was told this, you cant
do that. and they have been excessed and charged. Why dont they ask
and acertain before starting the journey from the train company they
are using? We should start a seperate group on here dedicated to RPIs
and what they get each and every day, it would be very illuminating.

"Bob Wood" <bobwood@ntlwhirled.com> wrote in message
news:cLVle.1717$Mi4.173@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
> In news:TuVle.1909$i61.544@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net,
> Stephen Hughes <news@39steps.org.uk> typed:
>
> > Is his season valid
> > via Sheffield anyway?
>
> I had wondered this before I made my first reply. York to Doncaster is
Map
> ER, which does not include Sheffield.
>
But his Season Ticket is York to Conisbrough, and as Routeing Points for
Conisbrough are Sheffield Group, Wakefield Group, and Pontefract Group as
well as Doncaster finding Permitted Routes for his Season Ticket would
involve a considerable amount of battling with the Routeing Guide and Fares
Rule.

However, his Season Ticket would not be valid via Sheffield (unless he
arrived at Sheffield via Barnsley) because of the doubling back rule
(between Swinton and Meadowhall - Meadowhall is in the Sheffield Group). But
if his Season Ticket is valid by a route that involves changing at Swinton
the combination of tickets would, I suggest, be valid, changing from the
York - Conisbrough Season Ticket to the Doncaster - Cheltenham Saver at
Swinton. The train does not have to stop at the station where you change
from a Season Ticket to an Ordinary ticket.

Peter

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:K7rZAPQ4MYmCFAxQ@donald.internetpolicynews.co .uk...

> >So, you're saying that if I had a Leeds to Peterborough season ticket
> >and an add-on ticket from Peterborough to KX,
> >then I could treat it as a "Leeds to London" and get on a MML service
> >that goes nowhere near Peterborough?
>
> That's essentially the question. Is the "combination ticket" a Leeds to
> London terminals (permitted on any route that a normal Leeds-London
> would be), or a Leeds to London via Peterborough, but also valid on
> trains that don't stop at Peterborough?
>
> As the routing guide seems these days to be most about making sure
> passengers travel according to revenue distribution, then I suspect the
> latter. Although the words employed may not have that effect.

I agree that the latter meaning is *probably* intended. But the rule says
that you must observe any restrictions "as to a particular train company"
(or words to that effect), and it doesn't say (as it could have done) that
you have to observe the routeing restrictions for each ticket. Further, the
wording in Condition 17 is in relation to two or more tickets "to travel on
one journey", and Condition 13 also refers to "journey".

It's difficult to know what was intended, and it's probably as usual a
question of degree. If I go from Birmingham-London on a return, travelling
from New Street on the outward half, can I use my Burton-Tamworth-Birmingham
season ticket in combination with the return half to travel Euston-Tamworth
direct, missing out Brum? Of course I can.

But if anyone wants to volunteer to try Nottingham-Grantham-KX via GNER on a
Nottingham-Loughbourough season + Loughborough-London return...

Regards

Jonathan

Jonathan Morton wrote:
> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:K7rZAPQ4MYmCFAxQ@donald.internetpolicynews.co .uk...
>
>
>>>So, you're saying that if I had a Leeds to Peterborough season ticket
>>>and an add-on ticket from Peterborough to KX,
>>>then I could treat it as a "Leeds to London" and get on a MML service
>>>that goes nowhere near Peterborough?
>>
>>That's essentially the question. Is the "combination ticket" a Leeds to
>>London terminals (permitted on any route that a normal Leeds-London
>>would be), or a Leeds to London via Peterborough, but also valid on
>>trains that don't stop at Peterborough?
>>
>>As the routing guide seems these days to be most about making sure
>>passengers travel according to revenue distribution, then I suspect the
>>latter. Although the words employed may not have that effect.
>
>
> I agree that the latter meaning is *probably* intended. But the rule says
> that you must observe any restrictions "as to a particular train company"
> (or words to that effect), and it doesn't say (as it could have done) that
> you have to observe the routeing restrictions for each ticket. Further, the
> wording in Condition 17 is in relation to two or more tickets "to travel on
> one journey", and Condition 13 also refers to "journey".
>
> It's difficult to know what was intended, and it's probably as usual a
> question of degree. If I go from Birmingham-London on a return, travelling
> from New Street on the outward half, can I use my Burton-Tamworth-Birmingham
> season ticket in combination with the return half to travel Euston-Tamworth
> direct, missing out Brum? Of course I can.
>
> But if anyone wants to volunteer to try Nottingham-Grantham-KX via GNER on a
> Nottingham-Loughbourough season + Loughborough-London return...

It comes down to the definition of journey. Using my example, is the
journey Leeds to London or is the journey Leeds, along the ECML via
Doncaster and Peterborough, to London.

> There are more subtle cases that this though: in particular
> the case ehere New Mills Central station lines on the
> route of most stopping trains and occasional (ha!)
> express diversions between Manchester and Sheffield,
> but just off (by about half a mile) the route used
> normally by expresses.
>
> If I have a Manchester - New Mills season can I use it
> in conjunction with a New MIlls - Sheffield ordinary
> ticket?
>
> Charlie

Or even a Manchester to New Mills day return in conjunction with a East
Midlands Rover valid Sheffield to New Mills. That 'should' be valid on a
Manchester to Sheffield service although it is a bit of a 'grey area'

Tim
>
>

In message <d7c403$chn$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, at
10:02:44 on Sun, 29 May 2005, Jonathan Morton
<jonathan@jonathanmortonbutignorethisbit.co.uk> remarked:
>But if anyone wants to volunteer to try Nottingham-Grantham-KX via GNER on a
>Nottingham-Loughbourough season + Loughborough-London return...

Oddly enough, the regular fare via Grantham is less than that via
Loughborough; should that have any bearing on the situation!
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:36:59 GMT, Charlie Hulme
<info@davenportstation.org.uk> wrote:

>Jonathan Morton wrote:
>> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:K7rZAPQ4MYmCFAxQ@donald.internetpolicynews.co .uk...
>>
>>
>>>>So, you're saying that if I had a Leeds to Peterborough season ticket
>>>>and an add-on ticket from Peterborough to KX,
>>>>then I could treat it as a "Leeds to London" and get on a MML service
>>>>that goes nowhere near Peterborough?
>>>
>>>That's essentially the question.
>
>
>Surely as the rule says
>
>'together they cover the entire journey'
>
>Then it's hard to argue that a ticket from Peterborough to KX
>is valid at any point on MML?
>
>There are more subtle cases that this though: in particular
>the case ehere New Mills Central station lines on the
>route of most stopping trains and occasional (ha!)
>express diversions between Manchester and Sheffield,
>but just off (by about half a mile) the route used
>normally by expresses.
>
>If I have a Manchester - New Mills season can I use it
>in conjunction with a New MIlls - Sheffield ordinary
>ticket?
>
>Charlie
>
No problem as long as you use Northern services which stop at New
Mills Central. Not alas using TPX express services
Manchester/Stockport/Sheffield/Cleethorpes services as alas TPX dont
stop at New Mills Central.
Once again, I say,..... phone the RPI Unit of TPX for advice.