Red diesel - again

[Les]

I refuelled at Middlewich a few days ago and asked the manager there
how he was going to implement the forthcoming changes to red diesel
duty, bearing in mind that at Rose Narrowbaots, Stretton, I was told
that they were going to charge full price for all fuel regrdless of
usage to keep admin costs to a minimum.
He replied that despite what the IWA published somer time ago about a
self certification system being introduced in November this year he
had still not had any word on this matter officially from HMRC and so
at this moment in time he was just going to carry on as usual selling
red diesel at the current rate of tax. Furthmore he said that he was
in regular touch with HMRC inspectors and they have still not been
told by the government what system is to be used now that the
derogation has ceased. HMRC have told him that once they have been
instructed by government as to what to do then it will take them about
12 months to introduce the new system.
So it looks like chaos reigns and long may it continue so that we
continue to get fuel at the current tax rate for as long as possible!

[Brian from sunny Suffolk]

It happens that GeoffW formulated :

>
> Les
> I'd suggest lobbying your MP its clear an mess they have created and they
> need to resolve....
>
> If enough MP put pressure on Mr Brown he would do something
>
> Geoff

Then they will charge you full duty on every thing and you will have to
claim the rebate at the end of the year. It will take HMRC about 3
years to work through them asking you for evidence that you are
entitled to the money back, go at appeal etc.
Yes lobby your MP and get a proper system.

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <Vvaxk.1338$Yc5.1262@newsfe27.ams2>, The Legend Returns
<trabant@owners.club> on Mon, 8 Sep 2008 at 15:28:25 awoke Nicholas
from his slumbers and wrote
>Quite frankly, I think the pack of shysters who've ran this country into the
>ground for the last ten years, have had more than enough money out of me.
>
>tox
>

This is one case where it is difficult to blame this government. They
had a derogation from EU legislation that allowed a lower rate of tax on
diesel used for pleasure craft propulsion. The government wished this
situation to continue and when the derogation came up for renewal they
presented a paper to the unelect(able)ed commission asking for this to
continue. The URL for the paper has been published on this group before
(anyone?).

The unelect(able)ed commission decided that the derogation had to
finish. So blame the EU (or whatever it calls itself now), not the
government. As has been pointed out in this group, in a number of
places, it will hardly pay the government to collect a relatively small
amount.

[Brian J Goggin]

>I really must take issue withthe term
>subsidy. OE definition "in finantial matters
>a subsidy is a form of financial assistance
>paid, usually by the government" as we are
>PAYING the duty on fuel how can we be
>recieving a subsidy.

You want an economics book, not a dictionary.

>And I see the old favourite you have a boat
>you must be well off, is not far below the
>surface again

You engage in an optional activity; you pay for it.

bjg

[Ged]

I asked Helen Walker who now runs the services with her husband Mike at
Aynho Wharf on the S Oxford and having received all the necessary
information, she says they will be adopting a self-certification scheme.

Ged

>>> On 04/09/2008 at 20:41, Les<les@esling.me.uk> wrote:
> I refuelled at Middlewich a few days ago and asked the manager there
> how he was going to implement the forthcoming changes to red diesel
> duty, bearing in mind that at Rose Narrowbaots, Stretton, I was told
> that they were going to charge full price for all fuel regrdless of
> usage to keep admin costs to a minimum.
> He replied that despite what the IWA published somer time ago about a
> self certification system being introduced in November this year he
> had still not had any word on this matter officially from HMRC and so
> at this moment in time he was just going to carry on as usual selling
> red diesel at the current rate of tax. Furthmore he said that he was
> in regular touch with HMRC inspectors and they have still not been
> told by the government what system is to be used now that the
> derogation has ceased. HMRC have told him that once they have been
> instructed by government as to what to do then it will take them about
> 12 months to introduce the new system.
> So it looks like chaos reigns and long may it continue so that we
> continue to get fuel at the current tax rate for as long as possible!

[furnessvale]

On Sep 11, 10:42�am, Ged <stag...@uk2.net> wrote:
> I asked Helen Walker who now runs the services with her husband Mike at
> Aynho Wharf on the S Oxford and having received all the necessary
> information, she says they will be adopting a self-certification scheme.
>
> Ged

I have just spoken to Brian, who took over my Alton business. As of
this morning he still has not received any information from HMRC as to
how to proceed.

George ex nb Alton

[Anthony]

On 4 Sep, 20:41, Les <l...@esling.me.uk> wrote:
> bearing in mind that at Rose Narrowbaots, Stretton, I was told
> that they were going to charge full price for all fuel regrdless of
> usage to keep admin costs to a minimum.

Who told you that then?

We were under the impression at one point that the proposed system
would involve us having to sell the fuel at the full rate of duty, and
it was down to the end user to demostrate to HMRC, and claim back from
them directly, any duty owed. I believe this was one of the options
considered, and is also how the agricultural industry thought it would
work if they had also lost the derogation. HMRC has seemed keen not to
have to do any extra work in all of this, so has presumably settled on
the easiest option for themselves.

What does concern me is the fact that as a retailer we have a duty of
care to HMRC and therefore there could be a requirement for us to be
able to prove to them what the fuel has been used for - which is
imposssible for us to do!

Rose will be charging at the dual rates of duty according to any
credible information supplied, and, as per the HMRC requirements,
obtaining a signed declaration from the purchaser.

Anthony

[Brian from sunny Suffolk]

Paul Scott wrote :

>
> So what other method could they use?
>
> Paul
I heard it said again last week that Braunston Marina are only going to
sell it at full duty. I repeat that is what I heard said, I didn't get
it first hand.

[furnessvale]

On Sep 23, 12:45�pm, Brian from sunny Suffolk <br...@notharnser.info>
wrote:
> Paul Scott wrote :
>
>
>
> > So what other method could they use?
>
> > Paul
>
> I heard it said again last week that Braunston Marina are only going to
> sell it at full duty. I repeat that is what I heard said, I didn't get
> it first hand.

Can't see them selling much then.

George ex nb Alton

[Brian]

Paul Scott wrote on 23/09/2008 :
> "furnessvale" <furnessvale@********> wrote in message
> news:0f536eb5-753e-44ab-9d7d-36a6693828ae@m45g2000hsb.************.com...
> On Sep 23, 12:45?pm, Brian from sunny Suffolk <br...@notharnser.info>
> wrote:
>> Paul Scott wrote :
>>
>>
>>
>> > So what other method could they use?
>>
>> > Paul
>>
>> I heard it said again last week that Braunston Marina are only going to
>> sell it at full duty. I repeat that is what I heard said, I didn't get
>> it first hand.
>
>> Can't see them selling much then.
>
> It is often alleged that most of their boats never go out, so won't the
> moorers be expecting to use 100% discounted fuel?
>
> As will presumably be the case with many of the 'continuous moorers'
> elsewhere on the system...
>
> I seriously expect that once a few duty evasion cases have been proved, the
> system will be 'simplified'...
>
> Paul

How much simpler can it be. you tell them what percentage you use for
what and thats what you pay duty on.
People telling untruths is a different matter. I would suggest it will
take years to prove that someone is evading duty, I very really by
diesel from the same place more than twice in a row. So they would need
to collect all my returns from different suppliers all over the country
and then work out I was actually not claiming the right amount which
would mean in my case finding out how often I went for dinner and how
often Di cooked on the diesel cook, which nights were chilly and we had
the heating on, O and when I ran short I bought some white diesel from
Tesco and put that in.
Very little chance I would say.