Horrific accident on the Ashton Canal

..mother presented the following explanation :
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:16:12 +0100, "Paul Scott"
> <notvalidpmscott@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if this is a quote from someone in BW:
>> "Swing bridges are locked and can only be opened with a key, which is issued
>> to boaters."
>
>
> 'Sold' to boaters more like.
>
>
>> Is that correct? Or just this particular bridge...
>
>
> ISTR having to use the handcuff key on the locks, can't remember off
> hand if the bridges needed any key - actually, I vaguely recall the
> smaller of the two swing bridges in that area (the one going into the
> field) didn't have any lock, but ICBW. I don't remember the smaller
> one appearing to be very well looked-after.

Last time I was that way the only bridge I can recall that was locked,
was held closed by a large screw that you released with a lock
windless, but that was a long time ago.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:00:45 +0100, Brian from sunny Suffolk
<brian@notharnser.info> wrote:

>.mother presented the following explanation :
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:16:12 +0100, "Paul Scott"
>> <notvalidpmscott@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if this is a quote from someone in BW:
>>> "Swing bridges are locked and can only be opened with a key, which is issued
>>> to boaters."
>>
>>
>> 'Sold' to boaters more like.
>>
>>
>>> Is that correct? Or just this particular bridge...
>>
>>
>> ISTR having to use the handcuff key on the locks, can't remember off
>> hand if the bridges needed any key - actually, I vaguely recall the
>> smaller of the two swing bridges in that area (the one going into the
>> field) didn't have any lock, but ICBW. I don't remember the smaller
>> one appearing to be very well looked-after.
>
>Last time I was that way the only bridge I can recall that was locked,
>was held closed by a large screw that you released with a lock
>windless, but that was a long time ago.

The bridge is secured by a vertical bolt, unlocked by a handcuff key

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:06:09 +0100, Dave Mayall
<david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:

>Yes, it is a tragedy for the girl, but let us move away from the
>mindset that seems to pervade society of "oh, she's lost her legs, it
>can't be her fault"

How do you know that that "mindset" "pervades society"? Maybe it's
"She's lost her legs. We are very sorry for her. We have no idea
whether it was her fault or anybody else's fault, but at the moment we
are more concerned about the girl in question than about allocating
blame."

bjg

"Brian J Goggin" <myinitialsATmyorganization.ie> wrote in message
news:3kg464thj9r02jp5vfieh23hh846cbv5tv@********...
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:06:09 +0100, Dave Mayall
> <david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Yes, it is a tragedy for the girl, but let us move away from the
>>mindset that seems to pervade society of "oh, she's lost her legs, it
>>can't be her fault"
>
> How do you know that that "mindset" "pervades society"? Maybe it's
> "She's lost her legs. We are very sorry for her. We have no idea
> whether it was her fault or anybody else's fault, but at the moment we
> are more concerned about the girl in question than about allocating
> blame."
>
Trust me, that mindset DOES pervade society. It may not do so in Ireland,
but it does here.

I can't be bothered to post the very many examples that I have personally
seen.

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:07:47 +0100, Brian J Goggin
<myinitialsATmyorganization.ie> wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:06:09 +0100, Dave Mayall
><david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Yes, it is a tragedy for the girl, but let us move away from the
>>mindset that seems to pervade society of "oh, she's lost her legs, it
>>can't be her fault"
>
>How do you know that that "mindset" "pervades society"?

Because I've seen it in so many cases where some kid up to no good is
injured, and all of the sudden the press and parents are off looking
for some authority figure to blame.

> Maybe it's
>"She's lost her legs. We are very sorry for her. We have no idea
>whether it was her fault or anybody else's fault, but at the moment we
>are more concerned about the girl in question than about allocating
>blame."

Even in the earliest reports, we hear than BW and the HSE are
investigating.

What is there for the HSE to investigate?
1) The girl sat in a dangerous position.
2) Other people (maybe her mates, maybe not) interfered with the
bridge, and swung it onto her legs.

The only investigation that is needed is by the police into the
conduct of those present at the bridge leading up to the incident.

Yes, unfashionable as it may be, some of her "deeply traumatised"
mates should be charged.

"Dave Mayall" <david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m9i4645kn2m66ek87opvcgip5dcbd3t5c4@********...
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:07:47 +0100, Brian J Goggin
> <myinitialsATmyorganization.ie> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:06:09 +0100, Dave Mayall
>><david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, it is a tragedy for the girl, but let us move away from the
>>>mindset that seems to pervade society of "oh, she's lost her legs, it
>>>can't be her fault"
>>
>>How do you know that that "mindset" "pervades society"?
>
> Because I've seen it in so many cases where some kid up to no good is
> injured, and all of the sudden the press and parents are off looking
> for some authority figure to blame.
>
>> Maybe it's
>>"She's lost her legs. We are very sorry for her. We have no idea
>>whether it was her fault or anybody else's fault, but at the moment we
>>are more concerned about the girl in question than about allocating
>>blame."
>
> Even in the earliest reports, we hear than BW and the HSE are
> investigating.
>
> What is there for the HSE to investigate?
> 1) The girl sat in a dangerous position.
> 2) Other people (maybe her mates, maybe not) interfered with the
> bridge, and swung it onto her legs.
>
> The only investigation that is needed is by the police into the
> conduct of those present at the bridge leading up to the incident.
>
> Yes, unfashionable as it may be, some of her "deeply traumatised"
> mates should be charged.

Probably not necessary.
If they aren't hardened brigands they will be traumatised mainly by the
realisation of what they collectively have done.
That will have been punishment enough and a severe object lesson.

The worst thing that can happen now is a H&S type investigation which by
implication absolves them from all blame.
--

JOhn

NB Ernest (that one, not the other one)

My indecision is final.

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:57:27 -0700 (PDT), Tony Haynes
<canaldrifter@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>What lacks is common sense.
>
>I have every compassion for the girl, but the accident has been
>avoided for years by all those who didn't do what she and her friends
>did.

Stop that right now.

You are supposed to disagree with me.

"Will Wilkinson" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:uzhhWSMwlnYIFwN4@steely-glint.lancre.net...
> Completely agree. I work in the IT security industry and, 20 years ago,
> there was a culture of "risk avoidance/elimination" which seems to be how
> many people see H&S risk management today. This gradually changed and the
> culture is now very much one of risk management as described above,
> hopefully the perception of H&S risks will eventually go the same way, but
> I don't expect to see it happen soon.
>
> Will
> --
In my experience the HSE professionals DO take a realistic risk management
view of things.

It is some of the press and public who go for the "total safety at all
costs" approach.
--

JOhn

NB Ernest (that one, not the other one)

My indecision is final.

"Dave Mayall" <david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m9i4645kn2m66ek87opvcgip5dcbd3t5c4@********...

>
> Even in the earliest reports, we hear than BW and the HSE are
> investigating.
>
> What is there for the HSE to investigate?
> 1) The girl sat in a dangerous position.
> 2) Other people (maybe her mates, maybe not) interfered with the
> bridge, and swung it onto her legs.
>
> The only investigation that is needed is by the police into the
> conduct of those present at the bridge leading up to the incident.
>
> Yes, unfashionable as it may be, some of her "deeply traumatised"
> mates should be charged.

But quoting from the initial BBC report:

A police spokesman added: "We are investigating the incident which we are
treating as a tragic accident."

Seems a bit of a premature announcement to me...

Paul

On 25 Jun, 17:24, Dave Mayall <david.may...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:57:27 -0700 (PDT), Tony Haynes
>
> <canaldrif...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >What lacks is common sense.
>
> >I have every compassion for the girl, but the accident has been
> >avoided for years by all those who didn't do what she and her friends
> >did.
>
> Stop that right now.
>
> You are supposed to disagree with me.

£$->=

Tone