Smoking Beta Tug engine BD3

On Mon, 12 May 2008 19:38:28 +0100, "Ron Jones" <ron@ronjones.org.uk>
wrote:

>John Baldwin wrote:
>> Has anyone had enough experience of the Beta ( Ford/Lister version )
>> Tug engine to help me with a friends boat.
>>
>> Briefly;
>> This engine is smoking (black) even under light load and even
>> gradual speeding up produces copious smoke and smuts. I thought it was
>> shooting stars when we were out with them one evening.
>>
>> The engine has never been "clean" and at first our friends believed
>> this to be due to need running in. I don't think it was the problem !
>>
>> So, just to see what might happen if the engine had some work to do
>> Sunday morning we tied our boat along side and tried opening things up
>> along the river. After as long as we could stand it , 1/2 hr, the
>> exhaust was a little bit cleaner when not working too hard.
>>
>> At this stage I would expect to have the injectors checked and
>> cleaned and set the timing of the engine, possibly while running.
>>
>> Forte has been reccomended for cleaning the injectors
>>
>> Can any one offer any other suggestions?
>
>I once had a bad injector on an old Fiat Uno Diesel (bad buy....), it was
>only cured by having the injectors serviced at a diesel service centre (that
>cost around 25GBP per injector, some 12-15 years ago). Part of the timing
>and the volume of fuel is due to the injector - IIRC the pump gives you
>around 4500psi and the injector opens and closes around 2000psi - so it's
>essential that all four are working in a similar fashion, otherwise you can
>get more fuel in one pot than the others - leading to unburnt fuel and black
>smoke. The injector cleaners can help with the spray pattern when the
>nozzle gets dirty, but may not help if the opening/closing pressure is off.
>Other suggestion would be to check the compressions on all cylinders, one
>cylinder with a poor compression might also be to blame.

It does sound very much like bad injectors, I doubt that additives
will sort it out if it is as bad as you describe. Best to get them out
& get them all checked.
Lack of air could give similar symptoms, but it would have to be a
*serious* lack of air (old pair of socks stuffed in the intake, or
some such ;-) )

Tim

On Mon, 12 May 2008 19:38:28 +0100, "Ron Jones" <ron@ronjones.org.uk> wrote:

>John Baldwin wrote:
>> Has anyone had enough experience of the Beta ( Ford/Lister version )
>> Tug engine to help me with a friends boat.
>>
>> Briefly;
>> This engine is smoking (black) even under light load and even
>> gradual speeding up produces copious smoke and smuts. I thought it was
>> shooting stars when we were out with them one evening.
>>
>> The engine has never been "clean" and at first our friends believed
>> this to be due to need running in. I don't think it was the problem !
>>
>> So, just to see what might happen if the engine had some work to do
>> Sunday morning we tied our boat along side and tried opening things up
>> along the river. After as long as we could stand it , 1/2 hr, the
>> exhaust was a little bit cleaner when not working too hard.
>>
>> At this stage I would expect to have the injectors checked and
>> cleaned and set the timing of the engine, possibly while running.
>>
>> Forte has been reccomended for cleaning the injectors
>>
>> Can any one offer any other suggestions?
>
>I once had a bad injector on an old Fiat Uno Diesel (bad buy....), it was
>only cured by having the injectors serviced at a diesel service centre (that
>cost around 25GBP per injector, some 12-15 years ago). Part of the timing
>and the volume of fuel is due to the injector - IIRC the pump gives you
>around 4500psi and the injector opens and closes around 2000psi - so it's
>essential that all four are working in a similar fashion, otherwise you can
>get more fuel in one pot than the others - leading to unburnt fuel and black
>smoke. The injector cleaners can help with the spray pattern when the
>nozzle gets dirty, but may not help if the opening/closing pressure is off.
>Other suggestion would be to check the compressions on all cylinders, one
>cylinder with a poor compression might also be to blame.

The jet in the nozzle goes oval after some years. This buggers the spray
pattern.
--

Martin

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:s8dh24lur0v442rf5evos8fa901mpd2aoi@...

[snip black smoke]

> The jet in the nozzle goes oval after some years. This buggers the spray
> pattern.
> --
This is my kind of engineering. Can't beat a good old-fashioned explanation
:-)

"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:9tvi24hh0taaehgmnr45kkq9ittjnck8m7@...

> Just a thought. Years ago I knew somebody with a similar problem on a new
> engine. It turned out that the engine wasn't installed horizontally. As a
> result
> the dip stick under read and there was far too much oil in the engine. If
> the
> dip stick owner had listened to the guy who installed the engine and not
> topped
> up the engine to the top of the mark on the dip stick he wouldn' have had
> a
> problem.

I've experienced this problem with someone who built a go-kart. Same result,
plus there was was oil going into the bell-housing (I think that's the word,
where the clutch hides itself) which made it unuseable until he took loads
out and dried it all.

However, I think the word "owner" in your paragraph above is possibly
redundant :-)

On Tue, 13 May 2008 12:58:18 +0100, "Uncle Marvo"
<paul.r@deletethisbitfortescue.org.uk> wrote:

>
>"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>news:9tvi24hh0taaehgmnr45kkq9ittjnck8m7@.. .
>
>> Just a thought. Years ago I knew somebody with a similar problem on a new
>> engine. It turned out that the engine wasn't installed horizontally. As a
>> result
>> the dip stick under read and there was far too much oil in the engine. If
>> the
>> dip stick owner had listened to the guy who installed the engine and not
>> topped
>> up the engine to the top of the mark on the dip stick he wouldn' have had
>> a
>> problem.
>
>I've experienced this problem with someone who built a go-kart. Same result,
>plus there was was oil going into the bell-housing (I think that's the word,
>where the clutch hides itself) which made it unuseable until he took loads
>out and dried it all.
>
>However, I think the word "owner" in your paragraph above is possibly
>redundant :-)

:o)

This guy had a 35' wooden gentleman's yacht built in 1905. It had an engine
built in 1935, one of those very slow revving long stroke petrol engines. The
noise of the engine was a pleasure to listen to. Shortly before the annual
summer cruise/disaster he managed to over tighten and rip out a cylinder head
stud. The engine was declared a right off by one of those experts who are more
interested in selling new engines than fixing old one.
--

Martin

John Baldwin brought next idea :
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 19:00:57 +0100, Brian from sunny Suffolk
>
> We were looking at one for the boat we had started building at that
> time, we ended up Perkins powered( massey ferguson 35 tractor :-))

Probably as good as a Ford Dexter one

John Baldwin has brought this to us :
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 01:25:34 -0700 (PDT), ken <granddad@luxmi.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I wondered about the overloading issue but that engine should be able
> to swing something like a 21x19, I think, without too much trouble!
>
We have a 20X22 with a large blade area via a 2:1 drive and have no
problem, I smokes a bit if you give it welly to accelerate or stop hard
but only for about 30 seconds.