"fox" or "foxtrot"?

Here in France "fox" is universally used (even by ATC) in place of ICAO
standard "foxtrot". Has this found favour in the UK? Or do you all still say
"foxtrot"? It has been years since I flew in UK!

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:06:48 +0200, "Ric" <fraybentos@tincan.ra>
wrote:

>Here in France "fox" is universally used (even by ATC) in place of ICAO
>standard "foxtrot". Has this found favour in the UK? Or do you all still say
>"foxtrot"? It has been years since I flew in UK!

Having flown VFR and IFR in France the last week, I must say that
French ATC proficiency is poor compared to UK, Benelux or Swiss
standards.

--
Boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:28:10 +0100, "Les Hemmings"
<les.frontalclaire@lobesvirgin.net> wrote:

>Ric wrote:
>> Here in France "fox" is universally used (even by ATC) in place of
>> ICAO standard "foxtrot". Has this found favour in the UK? Or do you
>> all still say "foxtrot"? It has been years since I flew in UK!
>
>Of course it's "Foxtrot"! Perhaps you'd like us to make them all
>monosyllabic for the bleedin' frogs to get their snail hampered tongues
>round?
snippetysnip
>The international language of the air is English and the worldwide standard
>for RT for "F" is Foxtrot!
>
>What is the world coming too!

This is really funny.... from 1973 till 1978 I worked in the North Sea
offshore industry and in those years MOST of the BA Helicopters and
Bristows pilots used "Fox" instead of "foxtrot"... and so did a lot of
their Danish, Norwegian en Dutch collegues.

> This is really funny.... from 1973 till 1978 I worked in the North Sea
> offshore industry and in those years MOST of the BA Helicopters and
> Bristows pilots used "Fox" instead of "foxtrot"... and so did a lot of
> their Danish, Norwegian en Dutch collegues.

Interesting. So it is used outside of France, which was the quest of my
original post before the Little Englanders started butting in with
xenophobic remarks.

"Fox" is easily confounded with
> "six".

Why? Because both end in "x"? By that token "foxtrot" is easily confused
with "eight" as both end in "t".

Personally, I think that "fox" does have plenty of advantages over
"foxtrot", especially for not native English speakers. It is shorter, and
avoids the "tr" sound which is very awkward for many non-English native
speakers.

> Why not just use the correct phraseology as promulgated in the French
> AIP, you seem to think you know better than French aviation legislation.
>
> Do it right and move on, stop trying to defend the indefensible, you may
> have a preference for "Fox" but it's just plain wrong.
> --
You obviously have difficulty reading. I use "foxtrot". However, I am
interested to know whether "fox" is as widespread outside of France as it is
in France. It seems from some of the more intelligent people who are able to
read that in fact it is used outside of France.

Hi,

In article <46b7042c@212.67.96.135>,
Gus Cabre<guscabre@lineone.net> wrote:
> I have flown for years in Brize Norton and never heard "fox" used (I now fly
> in other stations) How frequent is this? I will bring it up with SATCO.

Oops, now I've dropped someone in it!

I can't say I've ever really paid much notice, I only really remember
hearing it the odd time when I have been in the circuit recently.

Andy

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:08:48 GMT, "Julian Scarfe" <julian@avbrief.com>
wrote:

>Sorry Belgium, you really lucked out on Oscar Oscar.

Pronounced in Teletubby-speak: 'Oh Oh!' ;-)

--
Brace for impact. Brace! Brace! Brace!

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:42:19 +0100, Gus Cabre wrote:
> "Ric" <fraybentos@tincan.ra> wrote in message
> news:46ab2351$0$25925$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>> Here in France "fox" is universally used (even by ATC) in place of ICAO
>> standard "foxtrot". Has this found favour in the UK? Or do you all
>> still say "foxtrot"? It has been years since I flew in UK!
>
> Ric,
>
> Answering your question: no, it has not found favour in the UK and ,
> yes, we still say foxtrot. I have only heard it once out of France and
> have flown quite a bit in Europe and in South America. For me, "Fox"
> is a French variant.
>
> If it is correct or not, that is another issue. I have heard many pilots
> in the UK call "Finals" when ICAO says "Final"."Finals" is wrong.

There is plenty of bad RT, but that's got to be one of the most pointless
mistakes to comment on: it's universally used, and offers no possibility
of confusion. The only reason to say it is to show what kind of anorak you
wear ;-)

OTSO 'fox', my RT instructor (and FISO) admitted that one of the school
planes at his field was normally referred to on radio as "golf fox x" - as
long as there's no risk of confusion, surely it's only anorak-wearers
could object.

(In effect, "golf fox x" is a local idiom, similar to saying "queue en
aitch" rather than "quebec november hotel")

I notice that many French ground stations drop the "golf" from "golf
whisky lima".

A.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:16:02 +0100, NOSPA wrote:
>>OTSO 'fox', my RT instructor (and FISO) admitted that one of the school
>>planes at his field was normally referred to on radio as "golf fox x" - as
>>long as there's no risk of confusion, surely it's only anorak-wearers
>>could object.
>>
>>(In effect, "golf fox x" is a local idiom, similar to saying "queue en
>>aitch" rather than "quebec november hotel")

> The reason for ICAO is to standardise phonetics and reduce the
> likelyhood of error. Many phonetics have more than one syllable to
> further reduce the likelyhood of error.
>
> Could Fox also sound like Box or Socks?
>
> Sounds to melike it's just plain laziness.

Yes, it is laziness - or efficiency, as it might also be called.

I'm sure that if "golf box x-ray" or "golf socks x-ray" ever entered the
circuit, the fiso would address G-FX using the correct phonetics.