How to measure height of an airplane?

Say you are on the ground and want to measure the altitude of a plane that
is going over your head, what (simple) equipment can you use? They are
supposed to maintain at least 500 feet where I am but I don't believe they
actually do. Tired of endless stream of noisy planes (helicopters the worst
actually) when I'm pottering around in the garden.

I phoned the Civil Aviation Authority last year but although polite they
were pretty unhelpful. Basically said well it's up to you to make a case and
prove these things are too low. Now it looks like we're into low-flying
season again so wondering what I could do.

"Tim Ward" <tim@brettward.co.uk> wrote in message
news:57v4hjF2e04cgU1@mid.***************...
> "Joe Harrison" <newscontrol@crylo.com> wrote in message
> news:EAsSh.2727$vo2.683@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> Say you are on the ground and want to measure the altitude of a plane
>> that is going over your head, what (simple) equipment can you use?

>
> Primary school trig. Take two simultaneous bearings from different places
> with a decent intercept angle and do the sums. ...sticks and bits of
> string

Hmm it sounds hard, I mean these things do move quite fast. Ta for thought
however.

I don't know anything about aviation and I imagined altitude measurement
might be a routine task with a well-known solution. Any other thoughts
welcome on how I convince CAA to do something.

Can I ask you when the airfield that is evidently near you was built?

And when did you buy your house?

I have every sympathy for you if the former was built after the latter.

Joe Harrison wrote:
> Say you are on the ground and want to measure the altitude of a plane that
> is going over your head, what (simple) equipment can you use? They are
> supposed to maintain at least 500 feet where I am but I don't believe they
> actually do. Tired of endless stream of noisy planes (helicopters the worst
> actually) when I'm pottering around in the garden.

Unless you are on the final approach path of an airfield then it's VERY
unlikely that aircraft are getting closer than 500ft. The 500ft rule
does not apply on take-off or landing, for obvious reasons but even so
you'd have to be within a mile of the airfield for departing/arriving
aircraft to be below 500ft.

It is notoriously difficult to judge the height of aircraft and it is
commonplace that people on the ground think they are much lower than
they actually are. As a light aircraft pilot, I can tell you that there
is no way I want to be flying within 500ft of ANYTHING apart from the
runway I am about to land on!

John.

"Joe Harrison" <newscontrol@crylo.com> wrote

>Say you are on the ground and want to measure the altitude of a plane that
>is going over your head, what (simple) equipment can you use? They are
>supposed to maintain at least 500 feet where I am but I don't believe they
>actually do. Tired of endless stream of noisy planes (helicopters the worst
>actually) when I'm pottering around in the garden.

Apart from trigonometry there is no way you can tell accurately.

If however there is say a 500ft hill (that is, a 500ft projection
**above the surrounding ground**) and you see an aircraft fly below
the top of that hill, and you are standing on the ground, then
obviously he must have been lower than 500ft above the ground.

Obviously if all ground around you is flat, there is no way you can do
this.

Many people come to a court accused of low flying, and nearly all get
acquitted, because it's easy to show that Joe Public is a very poor
judge of height.

Most fixed wing pilots will be nowhere near that low. It's hard work
flying that low and is pretty pointless. Helicopters do go lower than
fixed wing, on average.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:34:51 +0100, Joe Harrison wrote
(in message <%jySh.7819$Wl2.1255@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>):

> OK, well I have no idea how far 500 feet actually is but these things look
> so low I just assumed they must be less. Maybe you are right then I will
> have to think about it. I work in a ten-storey building so I will ask our
> admin what the height is and see if I can imagine it from that.

As for your building, you should be able to get a reasonable estimate of
floor height, then multiply by ten !

> I actually quite like airplanes but it is just so annoying when you're in
> the garden pruning the squirrels and something goes belting overhead,

I agree, the noise can be very intrusive and noticably different between
aircraft. I try to be as considerate as I can when I'm flying, unfortunately
I think there are a significant number of pilots who've never even considered
it.

Something else you may be interested in, though it doesn't really help you.
There are in fact a number of well known ways to significantly reduce the
noise from small piston aircraft which are what most of these will be - but
the way the regulatory system is run makes them VERY expensive to fit, so
expensive that few owners would be able to afford it if they wanted to. I
personally know someone who imported a plane from Germany fitted with one of
these "hush kits" (different propellor and exhaust system) and replaced it
with standard parts (at a cost of about £3k IIRC) because the cost of having
it approved by the CAA would have been much higher. We are SUPPOSED to have a
unified regulatory system across Europe, and were supposed to have had when
this occurred.

When I part owned a plane I would have liked to have "done my bit" to reduce
my impact on those below, but with the costs involved I didn't even bother
raising the issue with the other 9 people as the cost, even when split 10
ways, would have been well past anything we could justify.


> When I talked to the CAA last year the guy asked what their registration
> numbers were so I wrote down a few and rang him back. I assumed it was like
> cars and police but in fact all he then did was tell me the postal address
> of the owners and told me to take it up with them.

Well if you can go along with evidence then they can be very hard on a pilot
- stories abound of their heavy handed approach. However, as someone else has
pointed out, experience shows that it's very difficult to judge height from
the ground - mostly because you have no frame of reference.


Someone has already suggested you pop along to the local airfield. I'd go
further and suggest that if you find a friendly club and explain who you
are/why you are there, then you'll almost certainly find people that will be
happy to take you up to see the situation from the air. I don't know what the
places down there are like, but I would hope that they'd be that friendly.


One final thing, hopefully to dispel one of the common myths - not all
aircraft owners are rich. To put it in perspective, some of those aircraft
flying overhead are worth as little as £15k - look along most streets and
you'll see plenty of cars in that sort of value range. My share of a plane
was worth about £4k, so less than most people have invested in their cars.
Yes there are MUCH more valuable aircraft, but as value goes up, numbers come
down. Running costs are a different matter of course :-(

In message <3itm13tp6cusrueh7vqdg4dk8ak6riglf8@********>
Peter <nobody@somewhere-in-the-uk.com> wrote:

>
> Many people come to a court accused of low flying, and nearly all get
> acquitted, because it's easy to show that Joe Public is a very poor
> judge of height.
>
> Most fixed wing pilots will be nowhere near that low. It's hard work
> flying that low and is pretty pointless. Helicopters do go lower than
> fixed wing, on average.

I agree we laymen are poor judges of height. As a Snowdonia farmer, I
am no stranger to low flying by forces aircraft. I have looked Hercules
pilots in the eye and received waves from the crewmen in the door. I
have stood above a Canberra and watched it fly down the valley with the
bomb doors (?) open. I have dropped my motorbike and stood aghast as I
watched a near miss by 2 Gnats. Neither took avoiding action so I
presume neither saw the other. My heart was going like a trip hammer
afterwards.

But the most extraordinary thing I have seen was a GA single engine pass
near the farmyard where I was working. The yard is at 400', the valley
floor is 350' the hill opposite is 350 yards away and the top is 650'
all measured off the OS map afterwards. It passed between me and the
hill with the top showing well above it.


--
Edward..
What can they know, whose talk is only of bullocks.

"Joe Harrison" <newscontrol@crylo.com> wrote in message
news:EAsSh.2727$vo2.683@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Say you are on the ground and want to measure the altitude of a plane that
> is going over your head, what (simple) equipment can you use? They are
> supposed to maintain at least 500 feet where I am but I don't believe they
> actually do. Tired of endless stream of noisy planes (helicopters the
> worst actually) when I'm pottering around in the garden.
>
> I phoned the Civil Aviation Authority last year but although polite they
> were pretty unhelpful. Basically said well it's up to you to make a case
> and prove these things are too low. Now it looks like we're into
> low-flying season again so wondering what I could do.
>
Shouldn't the subject be "How to measure the height of an aeroplane"?

I thought there was a citizenship test nowadays where immigrants had to show
a reasonable grasp of English before they could get a council house in
Bracknell. It's obviously not working.

Rgds

Andy R

"Andy R" <andrewr@ukhome.net> wrote:

>I thought there was a citizenship test nowadays where immigrants had to show
>a reasonable grasp of English before they could get a council house in
>Bracknell. It's obviously not working.

For a council house in Bracknell, yes, but probably not for one in
Manchester ;)