Great 'service' from Ryanair - NOT

[Roland Perry]

In message
<e99cb32f-0041-4100-b834-d5e654f655ed@26g2000yqo..............com>, at
16:58:31 on Sun, 3 Jan 2010, CJB <chrisjbrady@..........> remarked:
>Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
>then to Prestwick.
>
>But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
>stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
>hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.

It seems to me that this bus driver should have just as much blame.

Presumably John got on the "wrong" bus, or at the very least got off the
"right" bus at the "wrong place". Why did the bus driver abandon him,
wherever it was?
--
Roland Perry

[pete]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 08:18:44 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message
><e99cb32f-0041-4100-b834-d5e654f655ed@26g2000yqo..............com>, at
> 16:58:31 on Sun, 3 Jan 2010, CJB <chrisjbrady@..........> remarked:
>>Meanwhile, John had been advised to get a bus to the city centre and
>>then to Prestwick.
>>
>>But the city bus he caught dropped him at a remote location and he
>>stood with his heavy suitcase in dark sub-zero conditions for over an
>>hour before he was able to catch another bus back to the airport.
>
> It seems to me that this bus driver should have just as much blame.
>
> Presumably John got on the "wrong" bus, or at the very least got off the
> "right" bus at the "wrong place". Why did the bus driver abandon him,
> wherever it was?

I'm glad someone else thinks that, too. As I read the story it became
apparent that (while certainly not blameless) this was turning into
another "let's bash Ryanair for everything that goes wrong" piece.
ISTM the family didn't exactly help the preparation: having an 88 y.o.
flying alone, without any means of contacting them, either.

Q: do Ryanair actually have any ground staff at airports, or is it just
contracted out to someone like Servisair?

[Buddenbrooks]

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LJfCruqSfZRLFAft@perry.co.uk...
> Some people will suggest that the airline should have laid on coaches to
> Prestwick.

Sounds a good idea, but probably a logistic nightmare. The aircrew may
well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn the aircraft
around.
The airline may well have no employees at the airport, particularly if the
diversion is to an airport not normally used or to one they do. but not at
the time of diversion.
Arranging a bus alternative from Dublin would have some problems in
contacting a company that was happy to give a foreign company credit.
Also for which passengers? Many may well have preferred to make their own
arrangements as probably Prestwick was not their final destination.

Ryan Air have a duty of care, leaving the passengers in a warm safe place
like Edinburgh Airport probably discharged this responsibility.

I take a lot of Ryan Air flights and I just budget for one in ten costing
me £200 to sort out myself. Still cheaper than BA.

[tim....]

"Buddenbrooks" <knightstemplar@budweiser.com> wrote in message
news:kHo1n.7156$f%5.3985@newsfe25.ams2...
>
> "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:LJfCruqSfZRLFAft@perry.co.uk...
> > Some people will suggest that the airline should have laid on coaches to
>> Prestwick.
>
> Sounds a good idea, but probably a logistic nightmare.

This is the airline's problem (and a regulatory requirement)

>The aircrew may well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn
>the aircraft around.

What has it got to do with aircrew?

It's a ground staff problem. If the airline have no representative at the
airport how did they get someone to handle the plane when it landed?

> The airline may well have no employees at the airport, particularly if
> the diversion is to an airport not normally used or to one they do. but
> not at the time of diversion.

But they do have employees at the airport that the plane should have landed.
They ought to be able to arrange transit from there (the bus will have to
make a two way journey )

>
> Ryan Air have a duty of care, leaving the passengers in a warm safe place
> like Edinburgh Airport probably discharged this responsibility.

Not in the current regs it doesn't. Their responsibility ends when they get
them back to the "booked" airport. (but don't expect any Ryanair staff to
admit this.

> I take a lot of Ryan Air flights and I just budget for one in ten costing
> me £200 to sort out myself. Still cheaper than BA.

But if Ryan air sorted it for you it would cost 20 pounds

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

"tim...." <tims_new_home...........uk> wrote in message
news:7qmjrcFkqkU1@mid...................
>
>
> This is the airline's problem (and a regulatory requirement)
>

It would appear not, as Ryan Air did not,

>>The aircrew may well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn
>>the aircraft around.
>
> What has it got to do with aircrew?

The only employees of Ryan Air at the airport.

>
> It's a ground staff problem. If the airline have no representative at the
> airport how did they get someone to handle the plane when it landed?

Contractors.

>
>
> But they do have employees at the airport that the plane should have
> landed.

Contractors for specific tasks.

>>
>> Ryan Air have a duty of care, leaving the passengers in a warm safe
>> place like Edinburgh Airport probably discharged this responsibility.
>
> Not in the current regs it doesn't. Their responsibility ends when they
> get them back to the "booked" airport. (but don't expect any Ryanair
> staff to admit this.

Contractual responsibility and Duty of Care are different. Failure to meet
contract can see you sued in a civil court, failure for a duty of care can
see you in criminal court.

>
>> I take a lot of Ryan Air flights and I just budget for one in ten
>> costing me £200 to sort out myself. Still cheaper than BA.
>
> But if Ryan air sorted it for you it would cost 20 pounds
>
>

I budget on the assumption they wont.

[tim....]

"Buddenbrooks" <knightstemplar@budweiser.com> wrote in message
news:x2p1n.13536$OJ6.11962@newsfe26.ams2...
>
> "tim...." <tims_new_home...........uk> wrote in message
> news:7qmjrcFkqkU1@mid...................
>>
> >
>> This is the airline's problem (and a regulatory requirement)
>>
>
> It would appear not, as Ryan Air did not,

As is the norm for them. This doesn't mean that they are right

>
>>>The aircrew may well have no local knowledge and in any case need to turn
>>>the aircraft around.
>>
>> What has it got to do with aircrew?
>
> The only employees of Ryan Air at the airport.
>
>>
>> It's a ground staff problem. If the airline have no representative at
>> the airport how did they get someone to handle the plane when it landed?
>
> Contractors.

so they get this contractor to arrange the bus.

>> But they do have employees at the airport that the plane should have
>> landed.
>
> Contractors for specific tasks.

But this must include the capability of arranging buses. Usually the same
people who provide the staff for Ryanair at a remote airport provide the
staff for many other airlines.

tim

[Buddenbrooks]

"tim...." <tims_new_home...........uk> wrote in message
news:7qmp3bFmmnU1@mid...................
>> Contractors for specific tasks.
>
> But this must include the capability of arranging buses. Usually the same
> people who provide the staff for Ryanair at a remote airport provide the
> staff for many other airlines.
>

Exactly, they employ a contractor for specific tasks at specific times.
Other times they work for others and are not available.

Also the contractors have no executive power. When my flight out of Germany
was cancelled the service agent explained they could only re-book on the
next available flights.
Any other issues required the customer phoning a premium rate number to
Dublin.

[tim....]

"Buddenbrooks" <knightstemplar@budweiser.com> wrote in message
news:F4r1n.11169$6c5.670@newsfe30.ams2...
>
> "tim...." <tims_new_home...........uk> wrote in message
> news:7qmp3bFmmnU1@mid...................
> >> Contractors for specific tasks.
>>
>> But this must include the capability of arranging buses. Usually the
>> same people who provide the staff for Ryanair at a remote airport provide
>> the staff for many other airlines.
>>
>
> Exactly, they employ a contractor for specific tasks at specific times.
> Other times they work for others and are not available.

Yes, so if they know that the regulations will require them to lay on a bus
if they should divert to that airport (which they do), they should contract
for that service

simples

tim

[Roland Perry]

In message <7qn6o4Fcs7U1@mid................>, at 22:48:51 on Thu, 7 Jan
2010, tim.... <tims_new_home...........uk> remarked:
>Yes, so if they know that the regulations will require them to lay on a bus
>if they should divert to that airport (which they do), they should contract
>for that service

The problem with that, is they might have to divert to any airport in
the country; depending on the nature of the problem. (And that's
ignoring diversions that might happen over Continental Europe).

And with scores of airlines having the same issue, it's a N^2 problem
that could probably only be solved by some kind of central clearing
system. The lack of such a system is what would need to be solved here,
not the lack of one contact between one random airline and one random
airport.
--
Roland Perry

[tim....]

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:q0NaEuAaeuRLFAIE@perry.co.uk...
> In message <7qn6o4Fcs7U1@mid................>, at 22:48:51 on Thu, 7 Jan
> 2010, tim.... <tims_new_home...........uk> remarked:
>>Yes, so if they know that the regulations will require them to lay on a
>>bus
>>if they should divert to that airport (which they do), they should
>>contract
>>for that service
>
> The problem with that, is they might have to divert to any airport in the
> country; depending on the nature of the problem. (And that's ignoring
> diversions that might happen over Continental Europe).

Yes that's why it's been made the task of the airline to sort out.

They are far better placed to "contract" someone to sort this out than 300
individuals are to do it for themselves.

I don't see why the fact that "it is hard" should be an excuse for one party
opting out when for the other party it is "even harder".

>And with scores of airlines having the same issue, it's a N^2 problem that
>could probably only be solved by some kind of central clearing system. The
>lack of such a system is what would need to be solved here, not the lack of
>one contact between one random airline and one random airport.

Given that the airline ought to know that they should provide this (bus)
service, the fact that they have themselves decided not to pre-establish a
cooperative system, is not an excuse

tim