Engines that are prone to sludge

The following is JMHO!
NORMAL driving is considered driving on the highway for an extended period
of time. OK what percentage of drivers have commutes like that especially
with the price of gas today? ;-)
This is great for an engine to operate at normal operating temperature to
help burn off any moisture in the oil and maybe any carbon in the engine.
These engines can last a very long life (100s of 1,000s of miles) and the
oil does not get dirty too fast generally!
I have seen many different engines live long lives this way, foreign and
domestic. Of course there are some engines that just designed to fail after
XXX miles no matter how they are driven. <g>

Most vehicles are NOT driven this way but are driven in the city. The
engines use more gas, create more carbon and the temperatures are usually
colder than normal adding condensation/debris to the oil.
These engines require more frequent oil changes!
I have even seen VW engines get sick prematurely. :-(
--
later,
(One out of many daves)

"jan siepelstad" <jan@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4356$488b2726$d97b6566

snip

>
> I have driven 480,000 km (300,000 miles) with my 98 camry up to now.
> Last week opened the valve cover and everything looked like new!!
> No sign of any sludge at all!
>
> But I must say, I generally drive long distances (over 50 miles) and my
> fuel is propane.
> I change (synthetic) oil every 30,000 km (19,000 miles).
>
> Jan.
>

jan siepelstad wrote:

> I have driven 480,000 km (300,000 miles) with my 98 camry up to now.
> Last week opened the valve cover and everything looked like new!!
> No sign of any sludge at all!
>
> But I must say, I generally drive long distances (over 50 miles) and my fuel
> is propane.
> I change (synthetic) oil every 30,000 km (19,000 miles).

I'm convinced that longer trip highway driving will make up for a
multitude of sins (poor maintenance, design prone to sludging, etc.)
that would otherwise do an engine in before 100k miles in the absence of
good highway miles.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:
> The following is JMHO!
> NORMAL driving is considered driving on the highway for an extended period
> of time. OK what percentage of drivers have commutes like that especially
> with the price of gas today? ;-)
> This is great for an engine to operate at normal operating temperature to
> help burn off any moisture in the oil and maybe any carbon in the engine.
> These engines can last a very long life (100s of 1,000s of miles) and the
> oil does not get dirty too fast generally!
> I have seen many different engines live long lives this way, foreign and
> domestic. Of course there are some engines that just designed to fail after
> XXX miles no matter how they are driven. <g>
>
> Most vehicles are NOT driven this way but are driven in the city. The
> engines use more gas, create more carbon and the temperatures are usually
> colder than normal adding condensation/debris to the oil.
> These engines require more frequent oil changes!
> I have even seen VW engines get sick prematurely. :-(

I agree. I am the owner of a Chrylser with the 2.7L engine - known for
sludging up and failing between 60 and 80k miles. I drive it 80 miles a
day, 5 days a week, change the oil (and filter every oil change) between
3000 and 3500 miles, and kjeep 8 ozs. of Marvel Mystery Oil in the
crankcase at all times as a preventative. It turned over 200k miles
last month. I attribute it's longevity to the highway driving more than
anything else.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Sure, condensation in the crankcase does a lot of harm. And driving
highways also helps the battery charge.

On Jul 27, 5:48 am, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
> Reminds me of an older gentleman my daughter introduced me to a couple of
> years ago, her next door neighbor.  He has an old Chevy Nova he keeps mostly
> parked in his driveway.  Drives maybe 1/2 mile one way on his weekly trips
> to the grocery store or what not.  He complained about his carburetor
> needing a rebuild recently due to buildup as he seldom drives.  Son-in-law
> did the rebuild.  He found the plugs a bit fouled, but not too bad.  The
> oil, only a few months old was very thick and very black.  He pulled a valve
> cover, and found that cream colored greasy substance on it, water
> contamination.  No such in the oil itself or similar indication in the
> antifreeze.  After futher investigation, we all came to the same conclusion.
> The lack of continuous driving time was causing the oil to foul as the rings
> are probably not set any more.  The creamy substance at the inside top of
> the valve covers was due to dew buildup as the mornings are terribly moist
> sometimes, and the engine never got hot enough to burn out the water.
>
> Its an extreme exaggeration of what can happen to current vehicles (which
> run hotter/faster nowadays), but, it drives home a point about the need to
> put adequate highway miles to keep the contaminants down in the oil.
>
> --
> Dave

johngdole@m wrote:
> Sure, condensation in the crankcase does a lot of harm. And driving
> highways also helps the battery charge.

As well as get the moisture out of the exhaust. Exhaust system
materials have improved greatly over the years, but not too many years
ago, vehicles driven on lots of short trips will need most of their
downstream exhaust components replaced every 2 to 3 years, whereas the
same car driven mostly highway would go with the original exhaust system
for most of its life. It's not unusual for today's exhaust systems to
last the life of the vehicle (250+k miles) in mostly highway use.

> On Jul 27, 5:48 am, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
>> Reminds me of an older gentleman my daughter introduced me to a couple of
>> years ago, her next door neighbor. He has an old Chevy Nova he keeps mostly
>> parked in his driveway. Drives maybe 1/2 mile one way on his weekly trips
>> to the grocery store or what not. He complained about his carburetor
>> needing a rebuild recently due to buildup as he seldom drives. Son-in-law
>> did the rebuild. He found the plugs a bit fouled, but not too bad. The
>> oil, only a few months old was very thick and very black. He pulled a valve
>> cover, and found that cream colored greasy substance on it, water
>> contamination. No such in the oil itself or similar indication in the
>> antifreeze. After futher investigation, we all came to the same conclusion.
>> The lack of continuous driving time was causing the oil to foul as the rings
>> are probably not set any more. The creamy substance at the inside top of
>> the valve covers was due to dew buildup as the mornings are terribly moist
>> sometimes, and the engine never got hot enough to burn out the water.
>>
>> Its an extreme exaggeration of what can happen to current vehicles (which
>> run hotter/faster nowadays), but, it drives home a point about the need to
>> put adequate highway miles to keep the contaminants down in the oil.
>>
>> --
>> Dave

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

"Bill Putney" <bptn@kinez.net> wrote in message
news:6f5ingF9kraiU1@mid....
> johngdole@m wrote:
>> Sure, condensation in the crankcase does a lot of harm. And driving
>> highways also helps the battery charge.
>
> As well as get the moisture out of the exhaust. Exhaust system materials
> have improved greatly over the years, but not too many years ago, vehicles
> driven on lots of short trips will need most of their downstream exhaust
> components replaced every 2 to 3 years, whereas the same car driven mostly
> highway would go with the original exhaust system for most of its life.
> It's not unusual for today's exhaust systems to last the life of the
> vehicle (250+k miles) in mostly highway use.

Exhause systems really do outlast the old ones substantially. Many of us
tend to
forget how they used to rust out. Improved materials have helped this
problem
a lot. (Wonder how the manufacturers allowed this to happen :>)

I think that's correct. And is precisely the reason that Toyota
downgraded the oil interval from 7500 to 5000 miles in 2004. Otherwise
they'll have to re-certify with EPA.

Given that, I think today's Toyota/Lexus engines are just as likely to
sludge as the ones introduced after 1997 (with the then new LEV
certification).

On Jul 28, 4:34 am, "C. E. White" <cewhi...@remove>
wrote:
> I've seen this theory before, but it makes no sense since the heads
> were not changed as you claim. Go check out the Toyota parts catalog
> sometime and you'll see it is a bogus theory.
>
> Toyota does not specifically "recommend" synthetic oil, at least in
> the owner's guides for new cars (just looked at the OG for my Sister's
> 08 RAV4). They did stop saying not to use it however (one of the old
> Toyota FAQs recommended against using synthetic oil - I have no idea
> why). And since they do recommend 0W20 oil, I guess they are defacto
> recommending synthetic oil, since as far as I know all 0W20 is
> synthetic.
>
> Ed

> Exhause systems really do outlast the old ones substantially. Many of us
> tend to
> forget how they used to rust out.

This is exactly why Midas and Mienecke had to resort to brakes and
shocks to stay in business.
HTH,
Ben