A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS

Steel wheels aren't as robust as one might suppose. The 3.5-ton
Michelin floor jack's steel wheels laid down a thin layer of
a white, chalk-like substance which I can only suppose was
ground steel extracted from the wheels by the heavy weight of
the car as the jack rolled forward on the concrete ground while
lifting the car.

The substance looked a little like chalk scrawled on
a concrete street.

I think next time I'll lay a thin piece of wood or particle
board down on the floor for the jack to roll forward on as it
lifts the car.

Using a wooden runway probably isn't keeping with the rules of
floor jack operation, but I want the steel wheels to last.

>...chalk-like substance which I can only suppose was ground steel extracted from the wheels<

It's not steel from the wheels. Its concrete dust/marks in the
concrete from the weight on the steel wheels. That's usually a sign of
a weak mix or old concrete. We always called a weak mix a "barn yard"
mix, meaning there wasn't as much "cement" in the mix, which made it
weaker/cheaper, but was fine for a barn yard pour. Not allot of weight
going to be on it. Was manly for ease of cleaning the barn yard.

Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how
about just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?

Ray O wrote:
> "Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@m> wrote in message
> news:caaa78d9-1b38-4bab-9ea4-b7e90578039f@t54g2000hsg..com...
>> Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
>> movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how
>> about just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?
>
> As several others have pointed out, the white marks are from the concrete,
> not the jack's wheels.
>
> Concrete is the most stable surface for using a rolling floor jack, and
> putting anything under the jack would reduce the stability. I have been
> using a rolling jack for 40 years and still cannot see any permanent visible
> marks on any of my garage floors. Since you are not working in your own
> garage anyway, I'd skip the cardboard, particle board, steel plates, or
> anything else and just sweep the dust away when done.
And I'm wondering if you leave the jack in the trunk all the time? If
so what about the extra amount of gasoline used hauling a 90lb jack
around in the trunk. The auto manufactures spend millions getting 90lb
off the weight of a car.

Moe wrote:
> Ray O wrote:
> > "Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@m> wrote in message
> > news:caaa78d9-1b38-4bab-9ea4-b7e90578039f@t54g2000hsg..com...
> >> Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
> >> movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how
> >> about just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?
> >
> > As several others have pointed out, the white marks are from the concrete,
> > not the jack's wheels.
> >
> > Concrete is the most stable surface for using a rolling floor jack, and
> > putting anything under the jack would reduce the stability. I have been
> > using a rolling jack for 40 years and still cannot see any permanent visible
> > marks on any of my garage floors. Since you are not working in your own
> > garage anyway, I'd skip the cardboard, particle board, steel plates, or
> > anything else and just sweep the dust away when done.
> And I'm wondering if you leave the jack in the trunk all the time? If
> so what about the extra amount of gasoline used hauling a 90lb jack
> around in the trunk. The auto manufactures spend millions getting 90lb
> off the weight of a car.
========

You're funny :-P

Of course I don't leave the 90-pound jack in the trunk all the time.
A real comedian, you are, sweety :-)

Built_Well wrote:
> Steel wheels aren't as robust as one might suppose. The 3.5-ton
> Michelin floor jack's steel wheels laid down a thin layer of
> a white, chalk-like substance which I can only suppose was
> ground steel extracted from the wheels by the heavy weight of
> the car as the jack rolled forward on the concrete ground while
> lifting the car.
>
> The substance looked a little like chalk scrawled on
> a concrete street.
>
> I think next time I'll lay a thin piece of wood or particle
> board down on the floor for the jack to roll forward on as it
> lifts the car.
>
> Using a wooden runway probably isn't keeping with the rules of
> floor jack operation, but I want the steel wheels to last.

What you see is stone and concrete dust. Nothing to worry about, unless
you start seeing big grooves or the concrete starts to crack, then you
might want to find a better floor to work on...

DON'T use anything under the jack on concrete.

Unless your doing work that requires you to remove the tires/wheels why
not buy a set of drive on ramps. Lighter, safer, easier to use and
faster. Drop the ramps, drive(or back) onto them and chock or lock the
brakes. DONE.
Now you only have to drag the jack around when you need to pull the
tires. For oil changes, greasing the joints, replacing the exhaust, even
bigger projects like pulling a transmission.
Unless you have a very heavy car the plastic Rhino ramps work pretty
well. Or you can hunt down some steel ramps.

--
Steve W.

"Gary L. Burnore" ...
> "Steve W." ...
>>DON'T use anything under the jack on concrete.
>>
>>Unless your doing work that requires you to remove the tires/wheels why
>>not buy a set of drive on ramps.
>
> Because drive ramps are extremely unsafe under ANY condition. A good
> floor jack and jackstands is the way to go. While I was in high
> schook, I attended the funeral of the father of a girl was dating at
> the time because of drive ramps. He thought that it was safe enough
> to drive up on them and not use jackstands. He was wrong.

What is the failure mechanism of using ramps when the brakes are locked and
chocks are used?
Tomes
- who uses both methods

Gary L. Burnore wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:12:24 -0400, "Steve W." <csr684NOTm>
> wrote:
>
>> Built_Well wrote:
>>> Steel wheels aren't as robust as one might suppose. The 3.5-ton
>>> Michelin floor jack's steel wheels laid down a thin layer of
>>> a white, chalk-like substance which I can only suppose was
>>> ground steel extracted from the wheels by the heavy weight of
>>> the car as the jack rolled forward on the concrete ground while
>>> lifting the car.
>>>
>>> The substance looked a little like chalk scrawled on
>>> a concrete street.
>>>
>>> I think next time I'll lay a thin piece of wood or particle
>>> board down on the floor for the jack to roll forward on as it
>>> lifts the car.
>>>
>>> Using a wooden runway probably isn't keeping with the rules of
>>> floor jack operation, but I want the steel wheels to last.
>>
>> What you see is stone and concrete dust. Nothing to worry about, unless
>> you start seeing big grooves or the concrete starts to crack, then you
>> might want to find a better floor to work on...
>>
>> DON'T use anything under the jack on concrete.
>>
>> Unless your doing work that requires you to remove the tires/wheels why
>> not buy a set of drive on ramps.
>
> Because drive ramps are extremely unsafe under ANY condition. A good
> floor jack and jackstands is the way to go. While I was in high
> schook, I attended the funeral of the father of a girl was dating at
> the time because of drive ramps. He thought that it was safe enough
> to drive up on them and not use jackstands. He was wrong.

Well if you feel that one failure you knew of means all ramps are bad
then how about the numerous instances of jack stands failing? I know of
at least 5 myself. 2 were mechanical failures of the locks, one was a
failure of the welds on the legs and the other two were caused by the
stands falling over when the vehicle shifted due to being in improper
positions.
I can also show you failures of lifts (single posts, twin posts and 4
posts) as well as MANY deaths from using service pits.

Good ramps rated to support your vehicle are safer than jack stands and
a jack. Why? Because you need to go under the vehicle while your putting
the stands in place. Can a ramp collapse? Yes, if it's a cheap POS. OR
if it is used improperly. If you drive/back onto the ramp on a solid
level area (concrete, pavement or even a good wood floor) then chock the
wheels on the ground and lock the brakes it is about as stable and
secure as it will ever be. Do this on a soft dirt area or on a angled
area and you will have problems.

The point is that ALL means to lift a vehicle for service have failed at
one time or another. Some were outright mechanical failures while others
were operator error (far more of these). So do you decide that they are
ALL bad to use. NOPE.

--
Steve W.

Tomes wrote:
> "Gary L. Burnore" ...
>> "Steve W." ...
>>> DON'T use anything under the jack on concrete.
>>>
>>> Unless your doing work that requires you to remove the tires/wheels why
>>> not buy a set of drive on ramps.
>>
>> Because drive ramps are extremely unsafe under ANY condition. A good
>> floor jack and jackstands is the way to go. While I was in high
>> schook, I attended the funeral of the father of a girl was dating at
>> the time because of drive ramps. He thought that it was safe enough
>> to drive up on them and not use jackstands. He was wrong.
>
> What is the failure mechanism of using ramps when the brakes are locked
> and chocks are used?
> Tomes
> - who uses both methods

Some cheaper ramps can twist and collapse. If your not on a level
surface or if you overload them they can fail. These same problems can
also be found with jacks, jack stands, and lifts. ALL mechanical devices
can fail. Take a look at how many people have died using service pits.
Almost makes you want to pay the dealer to do the work....

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Built_Well
<Built_Well_Toyota@m> wrote:

>Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
>movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how
>about just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?

Corrugated cardboard would have a lot higher rolling resistance.
You would have to crush the corrugations to move.

Now "railroad board" might work for a one-shot use, that's the thick
paper cardboard they use as the backing for note pads and legal pads.
You would have to order it in from a paper supplier.

Best and easiest to obtain material for a floor protector is 1/4"
tempered hardboard - basically pegboard without the holes. Available
at almost any good lumber yard or home center.

The 1/8" thickness will fall apart too fast.

--<< Bruce >>--