Synthetic oil in hybrid

ransley is right. Steve showed a lack of understanding about the
benefits of synthetic oil technology in terms of operating temperature
range.

The hybrid engine technology has been around since the 1960. Toyota
had the *marketing* advantage of bringing it into cars first. That's
all.

..

On Apr 15, 6:10 am, "Steve Hiner" <shi...@tampabay.> wrote:
> The worst moment for an internal combustion engine is when it's first
> started. The Camry Hybrid engine runs at a much cooler temperature than a
> non-Hybrid engine due to it's continuous starting and stopping.
>
> Why not? You don't know whether they meet the requirements, you're
> comparing apples to oranges! The Spec's on the synthetic oil label's are
> for non-Hybrid engine's.
>
> Route 101's service tech isn't limiting the choice of non-Synthetic oil's,
> just cautioning against using a synthetic oil in the Hybrid, at least at
> this time. A smart person would yield to the side of caution, especially
> when it comes to new technologies, such as the Camry Hybrid engine.

The 5000 mile service interval is the Toyota Sludge interval. It's
post 97 engine designs run hotter and sludges up more easily. Honda
and GM are pushing 12,000 mile service interavls. So why do their
customers remember to change oil? Smarter?

No more than 4000 in a Toyota engine if you intend to keep it longer
than 4yr/60K. Better yet 3000 on dino oil. Use a good oil filter like
Bosch Filtech or Purolator PureOne.

On Apr 16, 8:38 am, ransley <Mark_Rans...m> wrote:
> I think the over long 7500 mile change requirements are what is to
> blame for sludge since the avg driver drives what is considered Harsh
> conditions. At 5000 my oil always looks real bad, at 7000 its has a
> real bad odor. I try to change at 4000.

Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
forget? Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
smart?

I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
in free. (-G. Strait).

On Apr 16, 6:39 pm, "Mark A" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> People who experience sludge typically DO NOT adhere to 7500 change
> intervals. In fact, most of these people simply forgot or didn't know that
> the oil needed to be changed.
>
> Toyota sells roughly 10 million vehicles Each Year world-wide. If only one
> percent of customers don't change their oil on a regular basis, that amounts
> to 100,000 vehicles. Assuming that there are at least 50 million Toyota
> vehicles still on the road world-wide, that would mean that there are
> 500,000 vehicles being driven without regular oil changes (I think the
> number is much higher). This is how sludge occurs. It does not occur because
> of people changing their oil at 7500 mile intervals.
>
> Conventional oil will definitely show its age after about 3000 to 4000
> miles. Full synthetic oil can usually go twice that long before the same
> deterioration occurs.

So just tell us. Do you recommend dino or synthetics for Route 101's
car?

Don't give us benefits of synthetics and then siding with the service
writer against it.

On Apr 15, 12:18 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi...@tampabay.> wrote:
> The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
> more at lower temps

> If, in fact, synthetic's do flow better at lower temp's than conventional
> oil, then yes it would be a benefit.

<johngdole@m> wrote in message
news:e339412f-2aed-46b1-a4b3-54ccc9913b84@p25g2000hsf..com...
> Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
> interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
> customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
> forget? Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
> smart?
>
> I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
> between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
> front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
> in free. (-G. Strait).

My interval is not out of date. I said that people with sludge do not change
their oil at least every 7500 miles. It doesn't matter what Toyota says, I
was talking about reality of how often people with sludge change their oil
(or never change it).

It is true that recent V6 Toyotas are more susceptible to sludge than most
other cars, but it is still a fact that there it is very rare for sludge to
appear in a Toyota V6 where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
(yes I know Toyota says 5000 miles). Given that a large number of people
either forget to change their oil, or don't know they need to change their
oil, then sludge will show up more often in the Toyota V6 compared to other
engines. But that does not obviate the fact that it is very rare for sludge
to appear in a engine where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
(yes I know says 5000).

On Apr 16, 8:39 pm, "Mark A" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > "ransley" <Mark_Rans...m> wrote in message
> >news:59892617-8b92-4296-a6a4->7cbf119eb__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i ?a63jfAD$z__@e39g2000hsf..com...
> > I think the over long 7500 mile change requirements are what is to
> > blame for sludge since the avg driver drives what is considered Harsh
> > conditions. At 5000 my oil always looks real bad, at 7000 its has a
>
>  >real bad odor. I try to change at 4000.
>
> People who experience sludge typically DO NOT adhere to 7500 change
> intervals. In fact, most of these people simply forgot  or didn't know that
> the oil needed to be changed.
>
> Toyota sells roughly 10 million vehicles Each Year world-wide. If only one
> percent of customers don't change their oil on a regular basis, that amounts
> to 100,000 vehicles. Assuming that there are at least 50 million Toyota
> vehicles still on the road world-wide, that would mean that there are
> 500,000 vehicles being driven without regular oil changes (I think the
> number is much higher). This is how sludge occurs. It does not occur because
> of people changing their oil at 7500 mile intervals.
>
> Conventional oil will definitely show its age after about 3000 to 4000
> miles. Full synthetic oil can usually go twice that long before the same
> deterioration occurs.

Real true, my sister brought her new car by with 9000 miles, I checked
the oil and it Stank bad, I asked when she changed it and she said, I
havnt, I add oil if its low! I still say 7500 is way overdue
considering 90% of us drive what is considered heavy usage. 3000 is
realistic, even the synthetic since the additives cook out, blowby
kills oil, the motor wears, and dirt does enter it. Now run Propane,
and oild does stay clean 3x as long, gasolene blowby if full of
contaminents

On Apr 16, 10:37 pm, johngd...@m wrote:
> Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
> interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
> customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
> forget?  Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
> smart?
>
> I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
> between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
> front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
> in free. (-G. Strait).
>
> On Apr 16, 6:39 pm, "Mark A" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > People who experience sludge typically DO NOT adhere to 7500 change
> > intervals. In fact, most of these people simply forgot  or didn't know that
> > the oil needed to be changed.
>
> > Toyota sells roughly 10 million vehicles Each Year world-wide. If only one
> > percent of customers don't change their oil on a regular basis, that amounts
> > to 100,000 vehicles. Assuming that there are at least 50 million Toyota
> > vehicles still on the road world-wide, that would mean that there are
> > 500,000 vehicles being driven without regular oil changes (I think the
> > number is much higher). This is how sludge occurs. It does not occur because
> > of people changing their oil at 7500 mile intervals.
>
> > Conventional oil will definitely show its age after about 3000 to 4000
> > miles. Full synthetic oil can usually go twice that long before the same
> > deterioration occurs.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I didnt know 15000 existed, and I dont mean toyota by itself, my Volvo
is at 7500 but I have seen the oil look totaly black at 2000 in winter
-city driving and ok at 4500 in city hwy driving. It comes down to a
person knowing how oil should look and setting their own schedule
based upon how he drives. In my city area its 3- 5000, in the country
it should be alot more. Severe driving conditions is what all overlook
and its how most of the US drives. City, short trip use is severe.

On Apr 17, 12:47 am, "Mark A" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> <johngd...@m> wrote in message
>
> news:e339412f-2aed-46b1-a4b3-54ccc9913b84@p25g2000hsf..com...
>
> > Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile
> > interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think
> > customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't
> > forget?  Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so
> > smart?
>
> > I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read
> > between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean
> > front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate
> > in free. (-G. Strait).
>
> My interval is not out of date. I said that people with sludge do not change
> their oil at least every 7500 miles. It doesn't matter what Toyota says, I
> was talking about reality of how often people with sludge change their oil
> (or never change it).
>
> It is true that recent V6 Toyotas are more susceptible to sludge than most
> other cars, but it is still a fact that there it is very rare for sludge to
> appear in a Toyota V6 where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
> (yes I know Toyota says 5000 miles). Given that a large number of people
> either forget to change their oil, or don't know they need to change their
> oil, then sludge will show up more often in the Toyota V6 compared to other
> engines. But that does not obviate the fact that it is very rare for sludge
> to appear in a engine where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles
> (yes I know says 5000).

Ok sorry, for my type of city driving I cant go 7500 , I cant go 5000.

With all of the problems Toyota and other Manufacture's have seen, there
must be a reason the service rep is cautioning Route 101 not to use a
synthetic in the Hybrid, at least at this time. I'm not recommending
either. I simply stated that a smart person would yield on the side of
caution. The Hybrid engine is new and it seems there may be or are too many
variables right now. As time goes by, these variables will disappear and a
much clearer picture will emerge.

Personally, I have never used a synthetic in my vehicles. Now, that doesn't
mean I don't like or mistrust synthetic's, I simply enjoy working on my
vehicles and have never had a sludge or any other problem in 30+ years. And
saved a few bucks along the way.

Now, if Route 101 has the money to spend on a replacement engine, if it
should blow up due to using a synthetic, then by all means use a synthetic.
If the service rep is just trying to sell their oil change service, rather
than honest and straight forward advice, then Route 101 has a decision to
make. But, unless I've misread something here, the latter seems to be true.

<johngdole@m> wrote in message
news:e0c0ac0e-7604-4d9a-b784-90fa4f73d21a@8g2000hsu..com...
> So just tell us. Do you recommend dino or synthetics for Route 101's
> car?
>
> Don't give us benefits of synthetics and then siding with the service
> writer against it.
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 15, 12:18 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi...@tampabay.> wrote:
>> The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
>> more at lower temps
>
>> If, in fact, synthetic's do flow better at lower temp's than conventional
>> oil, then yes it would be a benefit.

On Apr 17, 8:45 am, "Steve Hiner" <shi...@tampabay.> wrote:
> With all of the problems Toyota and other Manufacture's have seen, there
> must be a reason the service rep is cautioning Route 101 not to use a
> synthetic in the Hybrid, at least at this time.  I'm not recommending
> either.  I simply stated that a smart person would yield on the side of
> caution.  The Hybrid engine is new and it seems there may be or are too many
> variables right now.  As time goes by, these variables will disappear and a
> much clearer picture will emerge.
>
> Personally, I have never used a synthetic in my vehicles.  Now, that doesn't
> mean I don't like or mistrust synthetic's, I simply enjoy working on my
> vehicles and have never had a sludge or any other problem in 30+ years.  And
> saved a few bucks along the way.
>
> Now, if Route 101 has the money to spend on a replacement engine, if it
> should blow up due to using a synthetic, then by all means use a synthetic..
> If the service rep is just trying to sell their oil change service, rather
> than honest and straight forward advice, then Route 101 has a decision to
> make.  But, unless I've misread something here, the latter seems to be true.
>
> <johngd...@m> wrote in message
>
> news:e0c0ac0e-7604-4d9a-b784-90fa4f73d21a@8g2000hsu..com...
>
>
>
> > So just tell us. Do you recommend dino or synthetics for Route 101's
> > car?
>
> > Don't give us benefits of synthetics and then siding with the service
> > writer against it.
>
> > On Apr 15, 12:18 pm, "Steve Hiner" <shi...@tampabay.> wrote:
> >> The hybrid would therefore benefit from synthetics ability to flow
> >> more at lower temps
> >
> >> If, in fact, synthetic's do flow better at lower temp's than conventional
> >> oil, then yes it would be a benefit.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Maybe the service reps dealer doesnt sell 0-20 synthetics, or Mobil1,
For the hybrid I cant think of a negative for mobil1, 0-20