Catechin in tea reduces oxidized LDL, but milk in tea destroyscatechin

Ah, but why is the LDL getting oxidized in the first place? How did
my Great Grandfather live to be 100+ without any medications or
antioxidant supplements (didn't drink much tea, milk, red wine, or eat
dark chocolate either)? He used a little olive oil, ate only small
portions of meat, and didn't have arachidonic acid in his cells.
Obviously, other things helped too - he got a decent amount of sleep
each night, for example, but the point is that aside from the
indisputable (like getting enough sleep), the key is not to allow
PUFAs into your LDL in the first place. I've cited studies showing
how much more susceptible LDL is to oxidation when it is rich in
PUFAs, so the evidence, when viewed as a whole, is about as strong as
any reasonable person could ask for.

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
> Ah, but why is the LDL getting oxidized in the first place? How did
> my Great Grandfather live to be 100+ without any medications or
> antioxidant supplements (didn't drink much tea, milk, red wine, or eat
> dark chocolate either)? He used a little olive oil, ate only small
> portions of meat, and didn't have arachidonic acid in his cells.
> Obviously, other things helped too - he got a decent amount of sleep
> each night, for example, but the point is that aside from the
> indisputable (like getting enough sleep), the key is not to allow
> PUFAs into your LDL in the first place. I've cited studies showing
> how much more susceptible LDL is to oxidation when it is rich in
> PUFAs, so the evidence, when viewed as a whole, is about as strong as
> any reasonable person could ask for.

Your grandfather probably had outstanding genes. Most of us
have much less.
With those genes you could smoke, drink to your hearts
content, not bother
exercising, eat a lousy diet and you'll still live and be
healthy. Those are the lucky ones.

To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
are drunk with milk in
places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
that these teas have
tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
animal skins into
leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
the use of small amounts
milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
If you want a leather
pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
milk and your arteries
will improve.

RuF

On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@> wrote:
>
> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> are drunk with milk in
> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> that these teas have
> tannens  - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> animal skins into
> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> the use of small amounts
> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> If you want a leather
> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> milk and your arteries
> will improve.

Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,

Nigel at Teacraft

On Apr 16, 3:35 am, Nigel <ni...@teacraft.com> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@> wrote:
>
>
>
> > To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> > are drunk with milk in
> > places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> > that these teas have
> > tannens  - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> > animal skins into
> > leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> > the use of small amounts
> > milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> > If you want a leather
> > pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> > milk and your arteries
> > will improve.
>
> Tea has NO tannic acid.  Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> Breakfast blend so beloved of  trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
> Nigel at Teacraft

"Trotting mice?" Toci

Nigel wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@> wrote:
>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>> are drunk with milk in
>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>> that these teas have
>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>> animal skins into
>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>> the use of small amounts
>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>> If you want a leather
>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>> milk and your arteries
>> will improve.
>
> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
> Nigel at Teacraft

Since you are in the business, I question your statement.

Strichnyne is not poison because I sell it. :-)

Well, I think the people have spoken in defense of a mans honor... But
since I have learned so much from Nigel as well, I must also say that
I think this rude behavior deseves an aplology.
Mean people suck.
Jenn

On Apr 26, 12:10 am, RF <jvhea...@> wrote:
> Then that story about the tannic acid in tea must
> have been either a
> communist plot or the British Dairy Industry was
> trying to sell more milk  ;-)

Just to reiterate on this thread and to return to the original
context:

The original "story" did not mention tannic acid - it mentioned
catechins (antioxidant flavanols).

Black tea - the one that milk is generally added to - contains
oxidised catechins (theaflavins) and polymerized theaflavins
(thearubigins) - these are also powerful and beneficial antioxidants.
Tannic acid is not an antioxidant, neither is it a component of
Camellia sinensis tea.

The German study indicated a beneficial and measurable vein dilation
at the measured site (the hand if I remember correctly) due to a
recent intake of black tea, but this effect was reduced if milk was
added.

However, the German study used a very small test group, used an all
female test group, used tea at German drinking strength (weak), and
used milk at 3 or 4x the normal (British) level. I would take this
limited evidence as inconclusive and it certainly did not justify, as
the BBC and other media proclaimed, a blanket condemnation of the use
of milk in tea.

And just to summarize - nobody mentioned tannic acid.

Nigel at Teacraft

valhealey wrote:
> monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
>> Ah, but why is the LDL getting oxidized in the first place? How did
>> my Great Grandfather live to be 100+ without any medications or
>> antioxidant supplements (didn't drink much tea, milk, red wine, or eat
>> dark chocolate either)? He used a little olive oil, ate only small
>> portions of meat, and didn't have arachidonic acid in his cells.
>> Obviously, other things helped too - he got a decent amount of sleep
>> each night, for example, but the point is that aside from the
>> indisputable (like getting enough sleep), the key is not to allow
>> PUFAs into your LDL in the first place. I've cited studies showing
>> how much more susceptible LDL is to oxidation when it is rich in
>> PUFAs, so the evidence, when viewed as a whole, is about as strong as
>> any reasonable person could ask for.
>
> Your grandfather probably had outstanding genes. Most of us
> have much less.
> With those genes you could smoke, drink to your hearts
> content, not bother
> exercising, eat a lousy diet and you'll still live and be
> healthy. Those are the lucky ones.
>
> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
> are drunk with milk in
> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
> that these teas have
> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
> animal skins into
> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
> the use of small amounts
> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
> If you want a leather
> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
> milk and your arteries
> will improve.
>
> RuF

The tannins are supposed to be responsible for health benefits, and
despite your bad luck with inquiries, I suspect they do tend to join up
with proteins in the milk. In any case, your digestive tract is lined
with epithelial cells which reproduce rapidly and slough off,
contributing quite a bit of bulk to the output (pardon my French). So I
wouldn't worry about the leather pouch effect.

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Nigel wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:50 am, valhealey <jvhea...@> wrote:
>> To get back to the original article. Black (and pekoe) teas
>> are drunk with milk in
>> places like the UK, Ireland, etc because it has been known
>> that these teas have
>> tannens - tannic acids - that have been used for converting
>> animal skins into
>> leather. I have made many inquiries about alternatives to
>> the use of small amounts
>> milk in those teas to neutralize the tannens and found none.
>> If you want a leather
>> pouch instead of a stomach, drink these black teas without
>> milk and your arteries
>> will improve.
>
> Tea has NO tannic acid. Tea, not even the strong black Irish
> Breakfast blend so beloved of trotting mice, will NOT tan leather,
>
> Nigel at Teacraft

I do believe you're mistaken, Nigel. Tannic acid, according to Merck
Index 13, is simply a synonym for tannins in general, "the chemistry of
[which] is most complex and non-uniform. Tannins may be divided into 2
groups: (a) derivatives of flavanols, so-called condensed tannins and
(b) hydrolyzable tannins (the more important group) which are esters of
a sugar, usually glucose, with one or more trihydroxybenzenecarboxylic
acids."

Unlike most acids, "tannic acid" doesn't refer to any specific
molecular compound, but is the name of commercial product used, among
other things, for tanning leather.

If you go to the Wikipedia article, you'll find a link to a paper
which refers to tea as a rich source of tannic acid.

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c