Tetsubin

A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who
picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s
nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings,
inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs
of rust.
Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique
teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using
an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ???

Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse]

Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone and
I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky enough
to fins a good vendor?
Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it?

Sasha.

"Michael Plant" <mplant@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:C13978EA.4307D%mplant@pipeline.com...
>> A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
>> got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who
>> picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s
>> nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings,
>> inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs
>> of rust. Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique
>> teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using
>> an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ???
>> Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse]
>
> A Japanese iron kettle is meant to boil water, is it not?
> The glazed interior, brew-tea-in-it sort is a rather new
> development. One or two of our local stores carry
> unglazed Japanese iron kettles, the assumption being
> that they are used to boil water, not to brew. But then,
> I could be wrong and often am....
> Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum]
>

Dominic T. wrote:
> ... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no
> matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which
> many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ...

I wouldn't use a glazed one; when the glaze chips off, it might wind up
in my gullet. I do have a big one that sits on the wood stove in winter;
I rarely pour from it, but it's nice to know that hot water's always to
hand.

On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent
organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly
happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan
shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if
the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
carbonaceous film to the cast iron.

-DM

DogMa wrote:
> Dominic T. wrote:
> > ... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no
> > matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which
> > many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ...
> On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent
> organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly
> happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan
> shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if
> the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
> direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
> carbonaceous film to the cast iron.
>
> -DM

Exactly, that is why they highly prize the mineral/misc. deposits that
build up. They believe that the minerals are good for you and that the
buildup breaks down a bit and adds the minerals to the brew... me, I
don't quite see it in the same positive light. Although just as you
said with other cast iron cookware once "seasoned" it does most likely
seal up for the most part. I've seen some rough looking tetsubin, and I
just can't put that together in my mind or stomach with a beautiful and
delicate fresh green no matter how I try. Decoration and above fires
fit the bill for me.

- Dominic

Dog Ma wrote:
> It would be more likely if
> the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
> direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
> carbonaceous film to the cast iron.

I thought of that myself lately, something like keeping some strong
brew in the tetsubin, day after day, all day long, allowing the water
to evaporate over time.
It also depends on the actual water quality, content and composition of
minerals yadda yadda. Right now I´m still on the border of
Ostfriesland/Germania, with pretty soft (charcoal filtered tap-) water
(great for Assam based Ostfriesen Blends, baaaaad for DJs) and my
teawares stay relatively clean, whereas for example the tapwater in
Darjeeling is fairly rich in minerals and I see stains of any kind
develop quite rapidly, while basically brewing the same amount of the
same teas.

Dog Ma, it´s been a while ago for me but adressing polymerisation,
maybe you or someone else knows if the presence of iron ions helps in
forming insoluble complexes with the goodies (polyphenols) present in
tea ?

That brings up another question to the group:
what do your Yixing pots, especially yer older ones look like on the
inside (Oolongs/Pu-Erhs/...) ?

Karsten [time for the sack over here]

DogMa wrote:
> Dominic T. wrote:
> > ... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no
> > matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which
> > many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ...
>
> I wouldn't use a glazed one; when the glaze chips off, it might wind up
> in my gullet. I do have a big one that sits on the wood stove in winter;
> I rarely pour from it, but it's nice to know that hot water's always to
> hand.
>
> On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent
> organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly
> happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan
> shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if
> the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
> direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
> carbonaceous film to the cast iron.
>
> -DM

psyflakem wrote:
> ... adressing polymerisation,
> maybe you or someone else knows if the presence of iron ions helps in
> forming insoluble complexes with the goodies (polyphenols) present in
> tea ?

Don't know by reading or experiment, but it would almost have to: both
as a "core" for multidentate binding by several polyphenols or other
ligands, and as a redox catalyst to enhance the further polymerization
and cross-linking of the goo.

-DM

In Chinatown you can find boxes of Xiamen Wuyi Rock Tea Lao Tsung Shui
Hsien $4/30g. That is the high grade versus their Xiamen Sea Dyke Shu
Xian $4/125g which is a little less rocky. I've never seen an YiWu
narcissus.

Jim

PS I just saw that Snapple EGCG green tea commercial again. In the
background are rock tea trees in the crevices of the cliffs. You'd
need a monkey to get at those or an inverted cherry picker. I only buy
Chinese teas from sites that can send me the characters. The last
vendor sent them in an Excel spreadsheet which I don't have installed.
I told him how to dump his spreadsheet in an HTM file and send me that
which worked. I'm going to try their version of a wild bitter tea
called TianShan LuShui. This is my first foray into a shopping cart
versus Ebay auctions but they do take PayPal.

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
> Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone and
> I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky enough
> to fins a good vendor?
> Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it?
>
> Sasha.
>
> "Michael Plant" <mplant@pipeline.com> wrote in message
> news:C13978EA.4307D%mplant@pipeline.com...
....fire in the hole...
> > Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum]

Michael Plant wrote:
> In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron
> kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the
> Japanese word for this kettle? And what exactly is
> the English translation for the Japanese word,
> tetsubin? Water heating kettle came first, glaze
> lined tea brewing iron pot came second. No
> number of detailed facts are going to change my
> mind. I would never allow myself to be swayed
> by the facts.
> Michael

Note: Some modern tetsubin are made of alloys which claim to not rust,
I forgot to mention that before.

kama - kettle

shinnari kama - "true shape" based on the pot belly of the Tanuki (a
raccoon-dog) and the original kama, tea kettle, is seen to have this
same shape.

Tetsubin/kama can be made for use on one or both types of heat sources,
generally ro can be used for both heat sources while many furo are
furo-only.

furo - portable hearth/heat source (summer)

ro - hearth (winter)

kama and tetsubin are not interchangable to me personally, but are to
just about everyone else. I call the decorative non-used cast iron tea
kettles tetsubin, while I refer to the real deal old kettles and those
used in tea ceremony kama.

- Dominic

Me culpa - not Yi Wu, but Wu Yi (Archer barbarian). I think my spell
checker decided to swap the syllables.
Sorry.

Sasha.

"Space Cowboy" <netstuff@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1159189236.744022.320220@m73g2000cwd. o...
> In Chinatown you can find boxes of Xiamen Wuyi Rock Tea Lao Tsung Shui
> Hsien $4/30g. That is the high grade versus their Xiamen Sea Dyke Shu
> Xian $4/125g which is a little less rocky. I've never seen an YiWu
> narcissus.
>
> Jim
>
> PS I just saw that Snapple EGCG green tea commercial again. In the
> background are rock tea trees in the crevices of the cliffs. You'd
> need a monkey to get at those or an inverted cherry picker. I only buy
> Chinese teas from sites that can send me the characters. The last
> vendor sent them in an Excel spreadsheet which I don't have installed.
> I told him how to dump his spreadsheet in an HTM file and send me that
> which worked. I'm going to try their version of a wild bitter tea
> called TianShan LuShui. This is my first foray into a shopping cart
> versus Ebay auctions but they do take PayPal.
>
> Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
>> Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone
>> and
>> I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky
>> enough
>> to fins a good vendor?
>> Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it?
>>
>> Sasha.
>>
>> "Michael Plant" <mplant@pipeline.com> wrote in message
>> news:C13978EA.4307D%mplant@pipeline.com...
> ...fire in the hole...
>> > Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum]
>

Michael Plant wrote:
> In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron
> kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the
> Japanese word for this kettle?

"The Japanese Tea Ceremony" is, in fact, a collection of many different
versions of ritual. Most of the time, the water is heated in an iron
kettle over a fire. The lid is removed, and a bamboo dipper is used to
remove the hot water. This is called a kama.

Some versions of powdered tea ritual call for the use of an iron kettle
with a spout and a handle, thus eliminating the need for the dipper.
The kettle can be heated over a charcoal fire or an electric heater.
This is called a tetsubin, literally iron jug/bottle.

There is a book, in English, called _Tetsubin: A Japanese Waterkettle_
by P.L.W. Arts, Groningen [The Netherlands]: Geldermalsen Publications,
1987. This is a detailed academic work. Maybe you can find this by
inter-library loan. Paragon Book Gallery in Chicago might also have
occasional copies for sale.