Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.

On Jun 9, 9:24 am, Bertie the Bunyip <A...@AA.AA> wrote:
> More_Flaps <Morefl...@**********> wrote innews:d998f060-3e6a-4b62-8179-88afe9032aa2@i36g2000prf.************.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 9:06 am, Bertie the Bunyip <A...@AA.AA> wrote:
> >> More_Flaps <Morefl...@**********> wrote
> >> innews:64b157a9-99f5-4429-9125-d1e2
> > a5aea...@t12g2000prg.************.com:
>
> >> > On Jun 9, 7:29 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
> >> > D0t C0m> wrote:
> >> >> "Le Chaud Lapin" <jaibudu...@**********> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
> >> > -46e8-865e-de41aca34...@m3g2000hsc.************.com...
> >> >> On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@**********> wrote:
>
> >> >> > On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the
> >> >> > > nose upward?
>
> >> >> > What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a
> >> >> > 182. Both trim system are very, very different.
>
> >> >> For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.
>
> >> >> Does MSFS emulate the servo tab on the elevator? What does it do
> >> >> when you change the trim in the air?
>
> >> >> Trying to emulate real life trim on a simulation system that uses
> >> >> spring centered control sticks isn't going to work like real life
> >> >> as you may already know.
>
> >> >> Should I post the spoiler on how a couple other mechanisims work
> >> >> (besides servo tabs)?
>
> >> > I'll raise you one to make three additional trim systems. Any more?
>
> >> I can think of four for a total of five, depending on whether you'd
> >> consider hydraulic centering to be the same as a bungee trim system.
> >> theothersa re of course, a tab system which is th emost common light
> >> aircraft system. the trimmable stab, a'la Cub and most airliners and
> >> the vane, like some early T-carts had.. There're probably some
> >> others, but i can't think of any.
>
> > I'd count that as the same -the acutuating system doesn't count, just
> > the aerodynamic priciples. So, if you have four I'll raise you again
> > one to make five... Any raise on five basic methods?
>
> Yeah, they;re essentially the same.
>
> Go on. I'll call.
>

Should'nt we wait to see if there's any other raise?

Cheers

On Jun 8, 7:06 pm, Dan_Thomas_nos...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jun 8, 3:39 pm, More_Flaps <Morefl...@**********> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 9:24 am, Bertie the Bunyip <A...@AA.AA> wrote:
>
> > > More_Flaps <Morefl...@**********> wrote innews:d998f060-3e6a-4b62-8179-88afe9032aa2@i36g2000prf.************.com:
>
> > > > On Jun 9, 9:06 am, Bertie the Bunyip <A...@AA.AA> wrote:
> > > >> More_Flaps <Morefl...@**********> wrote
> > > >> innews:64b157a9-99f5-4429-9125-d1e2
> > > > a5aea...@t12g2000prg.************.com:
>
> > > >> > On Jun 9, 7:29 am, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk At Wow Way
> > > >> > D0t C0m> wrote:
> > > >> >> "Le Chaud Lapin" <jaibudu...@**********> wrote in
> > > >> >> messagenews:5c4deac0-2b92
> > > >> > -46e8-865e-de41aca34...@m3g2000hsc.************.com...
> > > >> >> On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@**********> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > On Jun 7, 10:08 pm, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > > What exactly happens when the trim is adjusted to point the
> > > >> >> > > nose upward?
>
> > > >> >> > What type of plane is this for? I have a Mooney and also fly a
> > > >> >> > 182. Both trim system are very, very different.
>
>moved fore and aft by a jackscrew to get the trim action.
>
> Mooneys used to move the WHOLE TAIL, fin and stab and all, to
> change the angle of the stab. Do they still make them that way?
>

You're right, Dan -- through at least the Mooney 201 (M20J) there are
no trim tabs, the entire tail pivots to change the trim.

On Jun 8, 6:06 pm, Dan_Thomas_nos...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jun 8, 3:39 pm, More_Flaps <Morefl...@**********> wrote:

A very detailed responsed mostly snipped...

Since you response is very detailed, more than I was expecting, I
should say that I was primarily interested answers about why it is
that setting trim relieves pressure that pilot has to exert on yoke.

I mentioned in response to Geoffrey's post that aircraft under
question could be consider C172, whose trim mechanism is obvious, but
if one were to talk too much about that part which is obvious, then
one might inadvertently give the answer away.

Again, this isn't rocket science, but I suspect that other students,
like I, had misconception of how it might work, even though it is
written in the book how it should work.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin wrote <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:

>
> Spent 30 minutes at pool yesterday discussing with professional
> metalworkers best way to weld a complex joint for important element of
> prototype of what would be considered a wing.
>
> Such things take time, and still, I do not know if it will work.
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-

to which I would point out that in 2008 most engineers when
considering structures operating at general aviation speeds and
stresses would be thinking of composites and molding complex shapes,
not in terms of bending metal and welded joining.

Hi.

In article <e2fb4e42-c653-4181-8b5e-e29ea30e9d5e@8g2000hse.************.com>,
Le Chaud Lapin<jaibuduvin@**********> wrote:
> Again, this isn't rocket science, but I suspect that other students,
> like I, had misconception of how it might work, even though it is
> written in the book how it should work.

A student who's actually sat in an aircraft and carried out the pre-flight
should have little doubt as to what moving the trim wheel actually does.

In the Warrior I fly, we're taught to put in full back elevator, then wind
the trim through the limits of its travel, watching the trim tab to ensure
it moves as it should.

Similarly, in the 'Aircraft General and Principles of Flight' exam we have
to sit in the UK, the operation of trim is expected to be understood.

Andy

On Jun 9, 12:34 am, Tina <tbaker27...@**********> wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Spent 30 minutes at pool yesterday discussing with professional
> > metalworkers best way to weld a complex joint for important element of
> > prototype of what would be considered a wing.
>
> > Such things take time, and still, I do not know if it will work.
>
> > -Le Chaud Lapin-
>
> to which I would point out that in 2008 most engineers when
> considering structures operating at general aviation speeds and
> stresses would be thinking of composites and molding complex shapes,
> not in terms of bending metal and welded joining.

This presumes that you know what the welds are for, which would be
difficult, as the welders themselves do not even know at this point.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

On Jun 8, 10:20 am, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@**********> wrote:

> For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.

What does MSFS have to do with anything. This is a pilot news group,
not sim. There are sim groups out there that would be more appropriate
for your question.

-Robert,CFII

On Jun 9, 10:58 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@**********> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 10:20 am, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@**********> wrote:
> > For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.
>
> What does MSFS have to do with anything. This is a pilot news group,
> not sim. There are sim groups out there that would be more appropriate
> for your question.

MSFS was the means by which I discovered the mechanism.

If I had learned in actual aircraft, the question still would have
been relevant.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin <jaibuduvin@**********> wrote in news:a685e391-2f45-4a75-
8058-65e06d3ad43b@z66g2000hsc.************.com:

> On Jun 9, 12:34 am, Tina <tbaker27...@**********> wrote:
>> Le Chaud Lapin wrote <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Spent 30 minutes at pool yesterday discussing with professional
>> > metalworkers best way to weld a complex joint for important element of
>> > prototype of what would be considered a wing.
>>
>> > Such things take time, and still, I do not know if it will work.
>>
>> > -Le Chaud Lapin-
>>
>> to which I would point out that in 2008 most engineers when
>> considering structures operating at general aviation speeds and
>> stresses would be thinking of composites and molding complex shapes,
>> not in terms of bending metal and welded joining.
>
> This presumes that you know what the welds are for, which would be
> difficult, as the welders themselves do not even know at this point.
>


And neither do you.


Bertie

Le Chaud Lapin <jaibuduvin@**********> wrote in news:964c4756-a3b3-43c5-
8362-8f88edfa807b@d45g2000hsc.************.com:

> On Jun 9, 10:58 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@**********> wrote:
>> On Jun 8, 10:20 am, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@**********> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jun 8, 11:07 am, "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@**********> wrote:
>> > For sake of those of us who only own MSFS, let's say a C172.
>>
>> What does MSFS have to do with anything. This is a pilot news group,
>> not sim. There are sim groups out there that would be more appropriate
>> for your question.
>
> MSFS was the means by which I discovered the mechanism.


No it isn't.
>
> If I had learned in actual aircraft, the question still would have
> been relevant.

Not if you'd asked it. And not in the way it was asked.


Bertie