CFI oral intel

Gezellig wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2008 07:21:20 -0700, gatt wrote:

>> A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
>> trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
>> will the aircraft strike the ground?
>
> That's easy, gatt. I wouldn't know.
>
> Or care.

Ha! That was my thought: If I'm dead, what difference does it make?

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> gatt <admin@livefromtheclocktower.us> wrote in

>> A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
>> trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
>> will the aircraft strike the ground?"
>
>
> He's obviously looking at getting an answer that it will be the same
> speed, but that's not correct. It probably wouldn;'t be far off it


The answer he apparently wanted was 110 knots, but I would have told him
-around- 110 knots.


>> Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control
> stall. Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"
>
> If you're asking, Slip.

That's what I'd have told him. (If you're in a 30-degree bank and your
outboard wing stalls you'll roll through wings-level but if your inboard
wing drops you're increasing your bank even further.)

I don't know what the examiner wanted to hear, but, that's the answer
I'd have given him.

-c

gatt <admin@livefromtheclocktower.us> wrote in
news:XaWdnRG6zM6NVaPVnZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@fishnet.com:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> gatt <admin@livefromtheclocktower.us> wrote in
>
>>> A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
>>> trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what
airspeed
>>> will the aircraft strike the ground?"
>>
>>
>> He's obviously looking at getting an answer that it will be the same
>> speed, but that's not correct. It probably wouldn;'t be far off it
>
>
> The answer he apparently wanted was 110 knots, but I would have told
him
> -around- 110 knots.
>
>
>>> Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control
>> stall. Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"
>>
>> If you're asking, Slip.
>
> That's what I'd have told him. (If you're in a 30-degree bank and
your
> outboard wing stalls you'll roll through wings-level but if your
inboard
> wing drops you're increasing your bank even further.)
>
> I don't know what the examiner wanted to hear, but, that's the answer
> I'd have given him.
>
> -c
>

Well, you're much more likely to spin out of a skid than a slip is what
he was getting at..



Bertie

gatt wrote:

> A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
> trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
> will the aircraft strike the ground?"
>
> Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall.
> Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"
>
> -c

These are reasonable questions.

The aircraft would attempt to regain and maintain the trim speed as it
descends. Whether or not it had the time to do that before ground impact
however would be dependent on the altitude remaining, so depending on
the altitude, the airspeed at impact might be short of the trim speed.

(This type of question is typical of FAA orals. They're looking for the
trim speed answer while completely neglecting the time and altitude
factors which to be accurate would have to be in the answer equation.

My advice to the person taking the oral would be to give the trim speed
answer, get the certificate, put it deep in the wallet and in your
pocket, then politely suggest to the fuzz that the altitude should be
included in the answer if not in the question itself :-)

A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less
pro-spin than a skid entry.

--
Dudley Henriques

On May 29, 8:19 am, Dudley Henriques <dhenriq...@rcn.com> wrote:
> gatt wrote:

> The aircraft would attempt to regain and maintain the trim speed as it
> descends. Whether or not it had the time to do that before ground impact
> however would be dependent on the altitude remaining, so depending on
> the altitude, the airspeed at impact might be short of the trim speed.

When I was a student pilot my instructor always said the plane will
seek its trim speed regardless of what you do with power settings.
I've actually never found that to be totally true in any plane I've
flown but it is grossly true.

-Robert

On May 29, 10:58 am, Bertie the Bunyip <A...@AA.AA> wrote:
> He's obviously looking at getting an answer that it will be the same
> speed, but that's not correct. It probably wouldn;'t be far off it, but
> the thrust line and any up or down thrust will play a big part in what
> the airplane settles at after the engine dies.

And in a propeller-driven plane with a conventional (as opposed to a T-
tail) empennage, the design and location (relative to the prop blast)
of the horizontal stab will probably swamp the effect of the thrust
line. In most cases, the trim speed will actually be higher when the
engine quits.

This question is a good one - without more information it can't really
be answered, but it's a great jumping-off point for a discussion of
the way pitch, power, and speed interact.

The airplane CFI PTS includes demonstrating and explaining trim stalls
(I remember having to do one on my CFI-ASE ride). So at least the
people who wrote the PTS expected the CFI to have that level of
aerodynamic knowledge, as well they should. It would help him to
explain to the student why certain things happen, and what he should
expect.

But that's probably way beyond what the average ops inspector is going
for (and probably more than he knows) - and it's somewhat depressing
that it's obvious to us that he's going for the wrong answer. You
would think we would give the guy the benefit of the doubt - but
having met several ops inspectors, I find that difficult to do.

Michael

gatt wrote:
> Jim Stewart wrote:
>> gatt wrote:
>
>>> Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control
>>> stall. Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"
>>
>> I'm wondering what the significance of posting this question is.
>
> They're aviation forums. Some people still actually like to discuss
> aviation out here.

I didn't mean to come off as a smart-***. As
I said, my instructor and I covered this well
before I soloed. I assumed that every soloed
student would know the answer, let alone a CFI
candidate.

I guess I was wrong.

>> Is it because everyone should know the answer or because on some level
>> it is
>> nonsensical?
>
> Actually, it's because if there are CFI candidates on the newsgroup it
> might help them to understand what kinds of questions they can expect.
>
>
> -c

gatt <admin@livefromtheclocktower.us> wrote:
> A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
> trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
> will the aircraft strike the ground?"

It all depends on what caused you to die. ;-)

(Actually I'm semi-serious, in spite of the wink.)

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:x6adnU4E_ZT7VKPVnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> gatt wrote:
>
>> A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
>> trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
>> will the aircraft strike the ground?"
>>
>> Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall.
>> Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"
>>
>> -c
>
> These are reasonable questions.
>
> The aircraft would attempt to regain and maintain the trim speed as it
> descends. Whether or not it had the time to do that before ground impact
> however would be dependent on the altitude remaining, so depending on the
> altitude, the airspeed at impact might be short of the trim speed.
>
> (This type of question is typical of FAA orals. They're looking for the
> trim speed answer while completely neglecting the time and altitude
> factors which to be accurate would have to be in the answer equation.
>
> My advice to the person taking the oral would be to give the trim speed
> answer, get the certificate, put it deep in the wallet and in your pocket,
> then politely suggest to the fuzz that the altitude should be included in
> the answer if not in the question itself :-)
>
> A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less
> pro-spin than a skid entry.
>
> --
> Dudley Henriques

Also need to look at coprs position are you slumped over and placign fwd
control pressure on the yoke? is the auto pilot on? lots of questions....

Jim Stewart wrote:
>>>> Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control
>>>> stall. Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"
>>>
>>> I'm wondering what the significance of posting this question is.
>>
>> They're aviation forums. Some people still actually like to discuss
>> aviation out here.
>
> I didn't mean to come off as a smart-***. As
> I said, my instructor and I covered this well
> before I soloed. I assumed that every soloed
> student would know the answer, let alone a CFI
> candidate.
>
> I guess I was wrong.



I don't remember ever talking about this with my instructor. I seem to have
known the answer; just can't say where I got the information any more.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.*******