Lancair crash at SnF

On Apr 25, 7:11 am, WingFlaps <Morefl...@> wrote:

> "In physics...The scalar absolute value (magnitude) of velocity is
> speed."
>
> Cheers

But it's relative to space, not the earth, as I posted earlier.
Earth pulls straight down, nothing more. Do this, as we have done many
times: Go out and fly on a day when the upper winds are at 30 or 40
knots and get under the hood, do 30 degree banked turns, maintaining a
constant altitude and power setting, and see if the airspeed changes.
Got to be done over flat land, BTW. Any orographic lift will screw up
the altitude. You won't see any performance changes, but the
airplane's flight path over the ground sure isn't circular. Try 45
degree banked turns. Try it in a glide. See if you can prove me wrong.

Dan

On Apr 26, 5:45 am, Dan_Thomas_nos...m wrote:
> On Apr 25, 7:11 am, WingFlaps <Morefl...@> wrote:
>
> > "In physics...The scalar absolute value (magnitude) of velocity is
> > speed."
>
> > Cheers
>
>        But it's relative to space, not the earth, as I posted earlier.
> Earth pulls straight down, nothing more. Do this, as we have done many
> times: Go out and fly on a day when the upper winds are at 30 or 40
> knots and get under the hood, do 30 degree banked turns, maintaining a
> constant altitude and power setting, and see if the airspeed changes.
> Got to be done over flat land, BTW. Any orographic lift will screw up
> the altitude. You won't see any performance changes, but the
> airplane's flight path over the ground sure isn't circular. Try 45
> degree banked turns. Try it in a glide. See if you can prove me wrong.
>

WTF? I wasn't talking about speed over the ground...

On Apr 26, 3:48 am, Stefan <stefan@mus._INVALID_.ch> wrote:
> WingFlaps schrieb:
>
> >>>> In everyday's language, the word velocity stands for the _magnitude_ of
> >>>> the vector.
> >>> Nope. Not even at high school. The magnitude is "speed".
> >> Maybe where you live. Not where I live.
> > BS. This is stated in any basic physics text book -even Wiki knows it:
>
> > "In physics...The scalar absolute value (magnitude) of velocity is
> > speed."
>
> What part of "everyday's language" wasn't clear?

I can see you have trouble with English too.

Cheers

On Apr 26, 9:43 am, Stefan <stefan@mus._INVALID_.ch> wrote:
> WingFlaps schrieb:
>
> >>>>>> In everyday's language, the word velocity stands for the _magnitude_ of
> >>>>>> the vector.
> >>>>> Nope. Not even at high school. The magnitude is "speed".
> >>>> Maybe where you live. Not where I live.
> >>> BS. This is stated in any basic physics text book -even Wiki knows it:
> >>> "In physics...The scalar absolute value (magnitude) of velocity is
> >>> speed."
> >> What part of "everyday's language" wasn't clear?
> > I can see you have trouble with English too.
>
> If my mediocre English is offending you, then feel free to converse in
> German, French, Italian or Spanish with me. I know all those languages
> better than English, which obviously isn't my native language. How many
> languages do _you_ speak?
>
> Nevertheless I know English good enough to know that in general use
> velocity is synonymous to speed. I don't expect you to agree with me,
> but maybe you accept an excerpt from the OED:
>
> velocity
>
> 1. a. Rapidity or celerity of motion; swiftness, speed.
>
> 1849 Macaulay Hist. Eng. iii. I. 379 The flying coaches are extolled as
> far superior to any similar vehicles ever known in the world. Their
> velocity is the subject of special commendation.
>
> c. In scientific use, speed together with the direction of travel, as a
> vector quantity.
>
> So again: If, outside a strictly scientific or technical environment,
> you choose to use a technical term which has a different meaning in
> general use than in scientific use, then better advise it.

Ok just for you I'll give you a heads up when I'm talking about
technical things just so you can place the conversation in the context
of your extensive(?) physics knowlege.

Technical comment :

Is there anyone here who thinks velocity is not used by pilots as a
vector (apart from Stefan)? I say the common parlance for the
magnitude of velocity is SPEED that is why you have an ASI in your
plane and a speedometer in your car. Anyone disagree?

I suggest that we are in a piloting forum, a technical environment,
and pilots do know the difference, e.g. they understand and use basic
physics and vector addition all the time... But I could be wrong and
if so I apologize for using technical terms correctly.

Cheers

On Apr 26, 9:43 am, Stefan <stefan@mus._INVALID_.ch> wrote:
> WingFlaps schrieb:
>
> >>>>>> In everyday's language, the word velocity stands for the _magnitude_ of
> >>>>>> the vector.
> >>>>> Nope. Not even at high school. The magnitude is "speed".
> >>>> Maybe where you live. Not where I live.
> >>> BS. This is stated in any basic physics text book -even Wiki knows it:
> >>> "In physics...The scalar absolute value (magnitude) of velocity is
> >>> speed."
> >> What part of "everyday's language" wasn't clear?
> > I can see you have trouble with English too.
>
> If my mediocre English is offending you, then feel free to converse in
> German, French, Italian or Spanish with me. I know all those languages
> better than English, which obviously isn't my native language. How many
> languages do _you_ speak?
>

is that an admission that you were mistaken after all? FYI, I have no
interest in conversing with you in any other language. I'm having
trouble finding any pleasure in talking to you in the lingua franca of
aviation and science as it is.

Cheers

On Apr 25, 3:43 pm, Stefan <stefan@mus._INVALID_.ch> wrote:
> WingFlaps schrieb:
>
> >>>>>> In everyday's language, the word velocity stands for the _magnitude_ of
> >>>>>> the vector.
> >>>>> Nope. Not even at high school. The magnitude is "speed".
> >>>> Maybe where you live. Not where I live.
> >>> BS. This is stated in any basic physics text book -even Wiki knows it:
> >>> "In physics...The scalar absolute value (magnitude) of velocity is
> >>> speed."
> >> What part of "everyday's language" wasn't clear?
> > I can see you have trouble with English too.
>
> If my mediocre English is offending you, then feel free to converse in
> German, French, Italian or Spanish with me. I know all those languages
> better than English, which obviously isn't my native language. How many
> languages do _you_ speak?
>
> Nevertheless I know English good enough to know that in general use
> velocity is synonymous to speed. I don't expect you to agree with me,
> but maybe you accept an excerpt from the OED:
>
> velocity
>
> 1. a. Rapidity or celerity of motion; swiftness, speed.
>
> 1849 Macaulay Hist. Eng. iii. I. 379 The flying coaches are extolled as
> far superior to any similar vehicles ever known in the world. Their
> velocity is the subject of special commendation.
>
> c. In scientific use, speed together with the direction of travel, as a
> vector quantity.
>
> So again: If, outside a strictly scientific or technical environment,
> you choose to use a technical term which has a different meaning in
> general use than in scientific use, then better advise it.

Stefan, this English speaker understands you (both your grammar and
your arguments) perfectly. I can't say the same of the gibberish
posted by Wingflaps.

On Apr 26, 3:16 am, B A R R Y <beech23pi...m> wrote:

>
> As we nit-pick this to death, what are the choices after a stall just a
> few hundred feet above the ground while turning?

In a 172 in a gliding steep (>=45 degree bank) turn at 65 knots? Very
high I'd say and I've done it at altitude as a demonstration. But
there are those who just don't believe/know it and it happens with
depressing frequency. This why I argue against the "impossible
turn"...

Cheers

On Apr 26, 12:56 pm, Robert Moore <Rmoor...@tampabay.> wrote:

>
> Hmmmm.....I wonder why we have "V" speeds, you know V1, Vso, etc.?
>

Some German origin?

Cheers

On Apr 27, 6:04 am, Dan_Thomas_nos...m wrote:
>         Lots of people had the impression you were talking about the
> dreaded downwind turn, with all the talk about the energy required to
> accelerate to maintain airspeed. The energy required, as pointed out
> in a much earlier post with several very good references, is so tiny
> that it's not worth fooling with at all.

Perhaps you could put a number on that? Could you try a gliding turn
with stopwatch and altimeter and compare that to a straight glide?

Cheers

Robert Moore wrote:
> WingFlaps wrote
>
>>Is there anyone here who thinks velocity is not used by pilots as a
>>vector (apart from Stefan)? I say the common parlance for the
>>magnitude of velocity is SPEED that is why you have an ASI in your
>>plane and a speedometer in your car. Anyone disagree?
>
>
> Hmmmm.....I wonder why we have "V" speeds, you know V1, Vso, etc.?


Quite simple: In physics, the abbreviation of 'velocity'
has been 'v' for a long time. The indices then describe
which speed it is.

Velocity is the value of speed vector without direction
information.

--

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio (at) iki fi