Cross Wind

I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
Anyone else doing this?
Jon

On 2007-04-18 06:15:46 -0700, Jon <tremainejonm> said:

> I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
> with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
> nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
> because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
> Anyone else doing this?
> Jon

Oh, yeah. Fun, isn't it? But apparently he hasn't done a good enough
job at explaining why you do crosswind landings.

The idea is to bank into the wind enough to keep the airplane from
drifting sideways and still keep the nose pointed down the runway. It
keeps the tires from peeling off the wheels when you touch down. Wheels
are real good for going forward and backward, but sideways is just not
their bag. Skidding sideways burns off rubber and causes flat spots,
stresses the landing gear (I have seen it actually come off the plane),
and can even blow the tire or cause it to come off the wheel. People
have even been known to lose control of the airplane when it skids like
that, ending up in a ditch or even cartwheeling. None of these things
are good, so you better learn crosswind landings and learn them well.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"Jon" <tremainejonm> wrote in message
news:1176902145.976670.130410@y5g2000hsa. ...
> I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
> with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
> nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
> because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
> Anyone else doing this?
> Jon
>

EVERYONE is doing it. The ability to land safely when the wind is not
blowing straight down the runway is an essential skill. FAR 61.87, which
sets forth the requirements each pilot must meet before solo, specifically
lists normal and crosswind landings (you do have a copy of the regulations,
right?). Here is a suggestion that has appeared in this and other newsgroups
for years: With your instructor's concurrence, pick a runway with a
crosswind and fly down its length a foot or two above the surface, following
the procedure you have been taught. Repeat until you feel comfortable, then
back off on the power and land on the upwind wheel. Do not remove the
crosswind controls until the airplane stops.

Bob Gardner

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> "Jon" <tremainejonm> wrote in message
> news:1176902145.976670.130410@y5g2000hsa. ...
> > I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
> > with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
> > nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
> > because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
> > Anyone else doing this?
> > Jon
> >
>
> It will benefit you right off the bat if you stop thinking about crosswind
> landings as a separate skill to be learned. The fact is that almost every
> landing you will ever perform will have at least some crosswind component
> attached to it. It is actually quite rare that absolutely no crosswind
> correction is needed on a landing; even if the wind is basically right down
> the runway.

I had similar problems to Jon till one day one of my instructors said
exactly your words to me Dudley and it all made sense. In retrospect
my fear was based on the premise that I had already learned to land
the aircraft, and now I was being taught to land it all over again
except this time I had to do things differently, and I had no idea how
different the "new" landing technique was going to be. Being told
that every landing is a crosswind landing meant that no only what I
had learnt so far was relevant, but I had already been doing
crosswind landings for some time. That made me lose my fear of them
and from then on it was a piece of cake.

"Euan Kilgour" <av8bharrier2.uk> wrote in message
news:1177367684.381614.247270@n59g2000hsh. o...
>
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> "Jon" <tremainejonm> wrote in message
>> news:1176902145.976670.130410@y5g2000hsa. ...
>> > I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
>> > with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
>> > nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
>> > because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
>> > Anyone else doing this?
>> > Jon
>> >
>>
>> It will benefit you right off the bat if you stop thinking about
>> crosswind
>> landings as a separate skill to be learned. The fact is that almost every
>> landing you will ever perform will have at least some crosswind component
>> attached to it. It is actually quite rare that absolutely no crosswind
>> correction is needed on a landing; even if the wind is basically right
>> down
>> the runway.
>
> I had similar problems to Jon till one day one of my instructors said
> exactly your words to me Dudley and it all made sense. In retrospect
> my fear was based on the premise that I had already learned to land
> the aircraft, and now I was being taught to land it all over again
> except this time I had to do things differently, and I had no idea how
> different the "new" landing technique was going to be. Being told
> that every landing is a crosswind landing meant that no only what I
> had learnt so far was relevant, but I had already been doing
> crosswind landings for some time. That made me lose my fear of them
> and from then on it was a piece of cake.

Like I always say, "The way to a good landing is the right approach to the
problem"
:-)
Dudley Henriques

"Euan Kilgour" <av8bharrier2.uk> wrote in message
news:1177367684.381614.247270@n59g2000hsh. o...
>
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> "Jon" <tremainejonm> wrote in message
>> news:1176902145.976670.130410@y5g2000hsa. ...
>> > I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
>> > with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
>> > nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
>> > because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
>> > Anyone else doing this?
>> > Jon
>> >
>>
>> It will benefit you right off the bat if you stop thinking about
>> crosswind
>> landings as a separate skill to be learned. The fact is that almost every
>> landing you will ever perform will have at least some crosswind component
>> attached to it. It is actually quite rare that absolutely no crosswind
>> correction is needed on a landing; even if the wind is basically right
>> down
>> the runway.
>
> I had similar problems to Jon till one day one of my instructors said
> exactly your words to me Dudley and it all made sense. In retrospect
> my fear was based on the premise that I had already learned to land
> the aircraft, and now I was being taught to land it all over again
> except this time I had to do things differently, and I had no idea how
> different the "new" landing technique was going to be. Being told
> that every landing is a crosswind landing meant that no only what I
> had learnt so far was relevant, but I had already been doing
> crosswind landings for some time. That made me lose my fear of them
> and from then on it was a piece of cake.
>

I always taught that all landings are the same. When you turn final just
forget about "coordination." That is fine and good when you are flying
around up in the air. When you are landing use the stick or the yoke like a
steering wheel to keep the airplane over the extended centerline of the
runway. At the same time use your feet to keep your nose pointed at the FAR
end of the runway. That way, whatever the wind is doing, right, left, or
none at all, you will do the right things to land the airplane safely. Then
after you land point the top of the yoke or the stick into the wind and keep
the nose pointed at the end of the runway with your feet. It works will all
airplanes, no matter which end has the "little" wheel. :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

Hi Dudley ...

On Apr 25, 9:42 pm, "Highflyer" <j...@siu.edu> wrote:
> "Euan Kilgour" <av8bharri....uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1177367684.381614.247270@n59g2000hsh. o...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dudley Henriques wrote:
> >> "Jon" <tremaine...m> wrote in message
> >>news:1176902145.976670.130410@y5g2000hsa.googleg ro...
> >> > I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
> >> > with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
> >> > nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
> >> > because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
> >> > Anyone else doing this?
> >> > Jon
>
> >> It will benefit you right off the bat if you stop thinking about
> >> crosswind
> >> landings as a separate skill to be learned. The fact is that almost every
> >> landing you will ever perform will have at least some crosswind component
> >> attached to it. It is actually quite rare that absolutely no crosswind
> >> correction is needed on a landing; even if the wind is basically right
> >> down
> >> the runway.
>
> > I had similar problems to Jon till one day one of my instructors said
> > exactly your words to me Dudley and it all made sense. In retrospect
> > my fear was based on the premise that I had already learned to land
> > the aircraft, and now I was being taught to land it all over again
> > except this time I had to do things differently, and I had no idea how
> > different the "new" landing technique was going to be. Being told
> > that every landing is a crosswind landing meant that no only what I
> > had learnt so far was relevant, but I had already been doing
> > crosswind landings for some time. That made me lose my fear of them
> > and from then on it was a piece of cake.
>
> I always taught that all landings are the same. When you turn final just
> forget about "coordination." That is fine and good when you are flying
> around up in the air. When you are landing use the stick or the yoke like a
> steering wheel to keep the airplane over the extended centerline of the
> runway. At the same time use your feet to keep your nose pointed at the FAR
> end of the runway. That way, whatever the wind is doing, right, left, or
> none at all, you will do the right things to land the airplane safely. Then
> after you land point the top of the yoke or the stick into the wind and keep
> the nose pointed at the end of the runway with your feet. It works will all
> airplanes, no matter which end has the "little" wheel. :-)
>
> Highflyer
> Highflight Aviation Services
> Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
>
> Hi Dudley ...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You are describing the slip method of cross wind correction. There is
also the crab method. It really depends on who your CFI is. If he's
flown taildraggers you'll get the slip method, if he's dreaming of
flying 747's you'll get the crab method.

-Robert, CFII

"Robert M. Gary" <N7093v@> wrote in message
news:1177604097.118609.19600@r30g2000prh. ...
> On Apr 25, 9:42 pm, "Highflyer" <j...@siu.edu> wrote:
>> "Euan Kilgour" <av8bharri....uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1177367684.381614.247270@n59g2000hsh. o...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> >> "Jon" <tremaine...m> wrote in message
>> >>news:1176902145.976670.130410@y5g2000hsa.googleg ro...
>> >> > I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
>> >> > with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
>> >> > nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
>> >> > because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
>> >> > Anyone else doing this?
>> >> > Jon
>>
>> >> It will benefit you right off the bat if you stop thinking about
>> >> crosswind
>> >> landings as a separate skill to be learned. The fact is that almost
>> >> every
>> >> landing you will ever perform will have at least some crosswind
>> >> component
>> >> attached to it. It is actually quite rare that absolutely no crosswind
>> >> correction is needed on a landing; even if the wind is basically right
>> >> down
>> >> the runway.
>>
>> > I had similar problems to Jon till one day one of my instructors said
>> > exactly your words to me Dudley and it all made sense. In retrospect
>> > my fear was based on the premise that I had already learned to land
>> > the aircraft, and now I was being taught to land it all over again
>> > except this time I had to do things differently, and I had no idea how
>> > different the "new" landing technique was going to be. Being told
>> > that every landing is a crosswind landing meant that no only what I
>> > had learnt so far was relevant, but I had already been doing
>> > crosswind landings for some time. That made me lose my fear of them
>> > and from then on it was a piece of cake.
>>
>> I always taught that all landings are the same. When you turn final just
>> forget about "coordination." That is fine and good when you are flying
>> around up in the air. When you are landing use the stick or the yoke
>> like a
>> steering wheel to keep the airplane over the extended centerline of the
>> runway. At the same time use your feet to keep your nose pointed at the
>> FAR
>> end of the runway. That way, whatever the wind is doing, right, left,
>> or
>> none at all, you will do the right things to land the airplane safely.
>> Then
>> after you land point the top of the yoke or the stick into the wind and
>> keep
>> the nose pointed at the end of the runway with your feet. It works will
>> all
>> airplanes, no matter which end has the "little" wheel. :-)
>>
>> Highflyer
>> Highflight Aviation Services
>> Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
>>
>> Hi Dudley ...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> You are describing the slip method of cross wind correction. There is
> also the crab method. It really depends on who your CFI is. If he's
> flown taildraggers you'll get the slip method, if he's dreaming of
> flying 747's you'll get the crab method.
>
> -Robert, CFII

Crosswind technique as you indicate can differ considerably when and if a
pilot transitions into high performance aircraft. Also, even in light
aircraft using "the crab method", there is always the inevitable transition
through the flare having to hold the wing down into the wind and enough
rudder maintaining the runway centerline through touchdown which is in
effect a transition to the "slip method".
Beacuse of these factors, I personally believe instructors are well advised
to teach crosswind technique as an integrated method right out of the gate
instead of teaching crosswind technique as one method vs the other .
Many instructors concentrate heavily on teaching the student to fly the
specific airplane being used for that student's flight training, which isn't
wrong on the face, and actually is necessary up to a certain point.
There are factors relating to flying in general that might be better
addressed by instructors in the general sense AS WELL as the aircraft
specific sense. One of these factors is crosswind landings.
Dudley Henriques

On Apr 26, 11:35 am, "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriq...@rcn.com> wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@> wrote in messagenews:1177604097.118609.19600@r30g2000prh.go oglegro...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 9:42 pm, "Highflyer" <j...@siu.edu> wrote:
> >> "Euan Kilgour" <av8bharri....uk> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1177367684.381614.247270@n59g2000hsh.google gro...
>
> >> > Dudley Henriques wrote:
> >> >> "Jon" <tremaine...m> wrote in message
> >> >>news:1176902145.976670.130410@y5g2000hsa.googleg ro...
> >> >> > I'm getting close to solo but my instructor is still not satisfied
> >> >> > with my cross wind landings. He has me doing a bank and keeping my
> >> >> > nose straight and holding altitude. I know it must be important
> >> >> > because he keeps doing it and tells me its for cross wind landings.
> >> >> > Anyone else doing this?
> >> >> > Jon
>
> >> >> It will benefit you right off the bat if you stop thinking about
> >> >> crosswind
> >> >> landings as a separate skill to be learned. The fact is that almost
> >> >> every
> >> >> landing you will ever perform will have at least some crosswind
> >> >> component
> >> >> attached to it. It is actually quite rare that absolutely no crosswind
> >> >> correction is needed on a landing; even if the wind is basically right
> >> >> down
> >> >> the runway.
>
> >> > I had similar problems to Jon till one day one of my instructors said
> >> > exactly your words to me Dudley and it all made sense. In retrospect
> >> > my fear was based on the premise that I had already learned to land
> >> > the aircraft, and now I was being taught to land it all over again
> >> > except this time I had to do things differently, and I had no idea how
> >> > different the "new" landing technique was going to be. Being told
> >> > that every landing is a crosswind landing meant that no only what I
> >> > had learnt so far was relevant, but I had already been doing
> >> > crosswind landings for some time. That made me lose my fear of them
> >> > and from then on it was a piece of cake.
>
> >> I always taught that all landings are the same. When you turn final just
> >> forget about "coordination." That is fine and good when you are flying
> >> around up in the air. When you are landing use the stick or the yoke
> >> like a
> >> steering wheel to keep the airplane over the extended centerline of the
> >> runway. At the same time use your feet to keep your nose pointed at the
> >> FAR
> >> end of the runway. That way, whatever the wind is doing, right, left,
> >> or
> >> none at all, you will do the right things to land the airplane safely.
> >> Then
> >> after you land point the top of the yoke or the stick into the wind and
> >> keep
> >> the nose pointed at the end of the runway with your feet. It works will
> >> all
> >> airplanes, no matter which end has the "little" wheel. :-)
>
> >> Highflyer
> >> Highflight Aviation Services
> >> Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
>
> >> Hi Dudley ...- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > You are describing the slip method of cross wind correction. There is
> > also the crab method. It really depends on who your CFI is. If he's
> > flown taildraggers you'll get the slip method, if he's dreaming of
> > flying 747's you'll get the crab method.
>
> > -Robert, CFII
>
> Crosswind technique as you indicate can differ considerably when and if a
> pilot transitions into high performance aircraft. Also, even in light
> aircraft using "the crab method", there is always the inevitable transition
> through the flare having to hold the wing down into the wind and enough
> rudder maintaining the runway centerline through touchdown which is in
> effect a transition to the "slip method".
> Beacuse of these factors, I personally believe instructors are well advised
> to teach crosswind technique as an integrated method right out of the gate
> instead of teaching crosswind technique as one method vs the other .
> Many instructors concentrate heavily on teaching the student to fly the
> specific airplane being used for that student's flight training, which isn't
> wrong on the face, and actually is necessary up to a certain point.
> There are factors relating to flying in general that might be better
> addressed by instructors in the general sense AS WELL as the aircraft
> specific sense. One of these factors is crosswind landings.
> Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree. I teach the slip method myself to primary students. I don't
bring up the crab method unless they say, "Hey, another CFI told me to
do it like this". No use in filling a student's head with the
techniques you are not teaching. For BFRs, F5's, IPC, checkouts, etc I
go with whatever method the pilot has been taught as long as they are
able to apply it correctly. I don't believe a BFR is the correct time
to inject your personal opinions just because.


-Robert, CFII

"Robert M. Gary" <N7093v@> wrote in message
news:1177624674.012092.242910@s33g2000prh. o...
> On Apr 26, 11:35 am, "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriq...@rcn.com> wrote:
>> "Robert M. Gary" <N70...@> wrote in
>> messagenews:1177604097.118609.19600@r30g2000prh.go oglegro...
> I agree. I teach the slip method myself to primary students. I don't
> bring up the crab method unless they say, "Hey, another CFI told me to
> do it like this". No use in filling a student's head with the
> techniques you are not teaching. For BFRs, F5's, IPC, checkouts, etc I
> go with whatever method the pilot has been taught as long as they are
> able to apply it correctly. I don't believe a BFR is the correct time
> to inject your personal opinions just because.
>
>
> -Robert, CFII
>

I agree. I have always recommended to CFI's that they treat the BFR as a
check flight as opposed to the "review and some dual" scenario.
Dudley Henriques