CFI restrictions on a just soloed student

Hi,

Anyone got a good/valid list of restrictions for a CFI to place on a just
soloed student? i.e. cloud bases above 5000', no rain, not before sunrise
or after sunset, etc...

I'd also like comments on a restriction of "Must have flown with me in the
previous 10 days".

Thanks,

Hilton

Hilton wrote:

> Anyone got a good/valid list of restrictions for a CFI to place on a just
> soloed student? i.e. cloud bases above 5000', no rain, not before sunrise
> or after sunset, etc...

Well, let's see, here's mine:
Wind 12 kt maximum
Cig 3000 minimum
Visibility 8 miles minimum

The next was
Xwind 12 kt maximum (no wind restriction)
Cig 3000 minimum
Vis 6 miles minimum
Day

In our locale, the vis would have been the most restrictive
normally but I soloed in November

Many CFIs put separate "wind" and "xwind" restrictions

> I'd also like comments on a restriction of "Must have flown with me in the
> previous 10 days".

It would tick me off, personally, unless it was something you were
thinking of as a temporary, initial restriction for the first 2-3
solo flights, in which case just not providing a general sign off
yet might be the way to go.

"flown with an instructor" or "flown in the last 7 days or flown
with an instructor in the last 10 days" would be less problematic.

JMO

What are you trying to accomplish here and why?

Sydney

There is a guy who flies in this area that (last time I heard) had about
200+ hours of "student" time before his CFI (aka girlfriend) cut him off of
the 90 day sign-offs. So he went on and finished. Up until then, he would
only fly alone and in rural areas, but that's all he wanted to do
apparently.

Jim wrote:
> I'll answer this from a CFI's view point (mine not necessarily everybody's)
> rather than the student's view point, not knowing which you may be.
> <.....> If no restrictions are in
> place that means all he needs is 1 mile clear of clouds at 500 feet above
> the highest obsticle and hammer down.

Um, as a CFI, shouldn't you be aware of the limitations imposed upon
student pilots by 61.89(a), which flatly contradicts the above?

Sydney

Robert Perkins wrote:

> With any combination of luck, skill, and divine help, I'll be "free"
> of those restrictions tomorrow afternoon. Wish me luck!

Good luck!

Sydney

Hi Sydney,

Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:
> Hilton wrote:

[zip restriction list]

Thanks for the list.


> > I'd also like comments on a restriction of "Must have flown with me in
the
> > previous 10 days".
>
> It would tick me off, personally, unless it was something you were
> thinking of as a temporary, initial restriction for the first 2-3
> solo flights, in which case just not providing a general sign off
> yet might be the way to go.
>
> "flown with an instructor" or "flown in the last 7 days or flown
> with an instructor in the last 10 days" would be less problematic.

That would work too - thanks for the suggestion. FWIW: I instruct for fun,
certainly not for money, so I this isn't a 'revenue' thing (e.g. CFIs taking
a student to a distance airport for pattern work).


> What are you trying to accomplish here and why?

The student in question is a good pilot. However, he sometimes doesn't fly
for 2-3 weeks and I can see rust on his flying - hence the proposed
restriction. As others have said, it doesn't make sense that a student
could not fly for 89 days, then go flying. I know that I got rusty pretty
quickly when I was a student.

Hilton

Congrats!!! Job well done!
Fly Safe! :)

Jim Burns III
Sometimes CFI, always a student.

On 18 Jul 2003 13:27:46 -0700, crwdog69@m (Michael) wrote:

>Just because something is not acceptable does not mean it doesn't
>happen.

True. Doesn't change the fact that rules are made, and accepted, and
put in force, and many folks required to follow them, all simply
because they sounded like a good idea to someone. But the above is
true.

8)

Ricky

Hilton wrote:

>>>I'd also like comments on a restriction of "Must have flown with me in
>>> the previous 10 days".

>>"flown with an instructor" or "flown in the last 7 days or flown
>>with an instructor in the last 10 days" would be less problematic.

> That would work too - thanks for the suggestion. FWIW: I instruct for fun,
> certainly not for money, so I this isn't a 'revenue' thing (e.g. CFIs taking
> a student to a distance airport for pattern work).

I didn't think it was. But that's part of the reason it would
have ticked me off. I assume you work full-time, perhaps travel
on business or take vacations. So I can easily see situations in
which Mr Solo Student might have time to spare, wx on his side,
but not be able to meet the "flown w/ ME in the last 10 days"
requirement". I'd be fuming. "Flown with an instructor in the
last 10 days or flown in the last 7 days" would seem to provide
Rustoleum, without beaching the student unnecessarily. They can
always haul someone else into the plane if you're not available,
you could even give them a list of names and phone numbers for
CFIs whose judgement you trust.

Sydney, feeling horribly rusty and un-proficient herself

"Jim" <jburns3@uniontel.net> wrote
> We tend to use that same methodology with the visibility limitations here.
> In central Wis. visibility is usually one extreme or the other so 10 miles
> required for newly soloed students works fine here.

And I guess that means that the vast majority of their presolo
training happens in 10+ mile vis, simply because that's what's
available? In that case, a 10 mile restriction on initial solo makes
sense. Around where I am, a student probably gets half of his
training in vis of less than 5 miles if he picks the right (wrong?)
season to start.

> It rarely gets down to
> 3 without some weather being involved, hardly ever just a hazy day here.

Here haze is common. In fact, when I sent a student on solo XC in 4
mile vis, that's all it was. No weather, no low ceilings, just haze.
It's a common thing on a summer morning. By afternoon, it clears up
some - and the T-storms start building.

> As
> the students capabilities and comfort levels go up we do training in lower
> visibilities and when we're satisfied they are safe, their visibility
> restrictions go down. By the time they go on their solo cross countries
> they've had training with visibilities down to 3 but we limit them to 5 or
> better and ceilings of 5000 or better.

I can understand 5 miles - especially since they probably don't get as
much low vis experience as student do down here - but 5000 ft? Around
here, they would never go on solo XC. Generally Gulf Coast summer
means the cloud bases start out around 1500-2000 in the morning - they
are not likely to make 5000 until mid to late afternoon if at all.
Even the GLIDER pilots don't wait for 5000 ft cloudbase to go XC here.
And the real kicker is that unless there is a weather system moving
in, the cloud bases are only going up. I have no problem letting a
student launch into 2000 sct/bkn and 4-6 in haze when I know it's only
getting better. Also, the terrain is flat as a board - when flying
light singles, I just don't go above 2500, and 1500 is more normal.
Density altitude is usually 3000 at ground level in the summer, so
climb above 2500 ft tends to be anemic.

Since they're going to fly that way when they get their tickets
(everyone here does) I see no reason not to get them out there in that
weather on solo XC. Anyway, in the haze the lower altitude makes it
easier to identify the few usable landmarks we have. Fortunately we
have many long, fairly straight roads. They get 'IFR' training early.

Michael