Cost of IGC approved loggers

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In article <6a5616cb-f58e-48f3-b5a1-7addbc8aefca@d70g2000hsb.p
s.com>, wannathermal@aim.com <wannathermal1@aim.com> writes
>Are IGC approved loggers too expensive? What is there cost point
>compared to a Barograph and camera setup? I.E. The cost of a Colibri
>logger compared to the cost of an approved Barograph (in 2008
>dollars). I don't know the cost of a barograph 20 years ago (in there
>heyday) but they could not have been cheap.
>
>Also, are clubs and individuals making loggers available to newer
>pilots for badge flights as barographs were?
>
>Just some pondering.
>
>Bob

Lasham certainly provide recorders for use in Club Aircraft and I would
guess that most other clubs in UK do as well.

As I understand it, the comparison between Barograph/cameras and
Recorders won't be worth a damn if the proposed change in the Sporting
Code is approved in March which makes IGC Flight Recorders and some
'Off-the-Shelf' GPS units the only acceptable forms of evidence up to
Gold (excluding Diamonds) and only Approved Flight Recorders above that.

Tim Newport-Peace tnp@spsys.

The heights by great men reached and kept
Were not attained by sudden flight
But they, while their companions slept
Were toiling upwards in the night."

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882)

On Feb 11, 2:43 pm, "HL Falbaum" <hfalb...@> wrote:
> A used, good condition Replogle Barograph can be bought for under 250 USD.
> Two Cameras--200 USD.
<snip>

That sounds expensive for two second hand 35mm cameras with pretty
basic requirements - a tripod screw thread (for ease of mounting), and
auto wind-on. Is b&w film acceptable? If so a developing drum is
cheap again of Ebay.

However I can't think of a single reason I'd want to do it that way.
If nothing else looking at the trace from a flight recorder can be
very interesting, though I conceed that if you are not bothered about
it being valid for claiming badges, just about any Garmin GPS can be
plugged into a PDA running free software giving a cheap way of
recording flights. My club provides barographs (EW-B) for all club
single-seat gliders which does for Bronze (if not done by direct
observation) and Silver badges.

On Feb 11, 7:29 am, Cats <ramwa...@uk2.net> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2:43 pm, "HL Falbaum" <hfalb...@> wrote:> A used, good condition Replogle Barograph can be bought for under 250 USD.
> > Two Cameras--200 USD.
>
> <snip>
>
> That sounds expensive for two second hand 35mm cameras with pretty
> basic requirements - a tripod screw thread (for ease of mounting), and
> auto wind-on.  Is b&w film acceptable?  If so a developing drum is
> cheap again of Ebay.
>
> However I can't think of a single reason I'd want to do it that way.
> If nothing else looking at the trace from a flight recorder can be
> very interesting, though I conceed that if you are not bothered about
> it being valid for claiming badges, just about any Garmin GPS can be
> plugged into a PDA running free software giving a cheap way of
> recording flights.  My club provides barographs (EW-B) for all club
> single-seat gliders which does for Bronze (if not done by direct
> observation) and Silver badges.

The Willamette Valley Soaring Club has an older Colibri available to
any member to use. We also have a number of Palm/GPS setups in the
club that are used for "recording" flights. In several cases the Palm
units are cliped to a GPS unit that clips directly to the unit and
also provides power for the Palm. Very convenient and easy to move
between gliders.

On Feb 11, 7:43 am, SoaringXCellence <cirrus...@> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 7:29 am, Cats <ramwa...@uk2.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 2:43 pm, "HL Falbaum" <hfalb...@> wrote:> A used, good condition Replogle Barograph can be bought for under 250 USD.
> > > Two Cameras--200 USD.
>
> > <snip>
>
> > That sounds expensive for two second hand 35mm cameras with pretty
> > basic requirements - a tripod screw thread (for ease of mounting), and
> > auto wind-on.  Is b&w film acceptable?  If so a developing drum is
> > cheap again of Ebay.
>
> > However I can't think of a single reason I'd want to do it that way.
> > If nothing else looking at the trace from a flight recorder can be
> > very interesting, though I conceed that if you are not bothered about
> > it being valid for claiming badges, just about any Garmin GPS can be
> > plugged into a PDA running free software giving a cheap way of
> > recording flights.  My club provides barographs (EW-B) for all club
> > single-seat gliders which does for Bronze (if not done by direct
> > observation) and Silver badges.
>
> The Willamette Valley Soaring Club has an older Colibri available to
> any member to use.  We also have a number of Palm/GPS setups in the
> club that are used for "recording" flights.  In several cases the Palm
> units are cliped to a GPS unit that clips directly to the unit and
> also provides power for the Palm.  Very convenient and easy to move
> between gliders.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

By the way. Thos Palm GPS units can be put together for under $200
and you'll not only have a logger but a flight computer as well.

Oh?

What about those contest pilots who have lost whole
days because they screwed up using a CFR?

At 16:06 11 February 2008, james.d.wynhoff@saic.com
wrote:
>>
>> By the way. =A0Thos Palm GPS units can be put together
>>for under $200
>> and you'll not only have a logger but a flight computer
>>as well.- Hide quo=
>ted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>=2E... And those are fine for the OLC, but for badge
>work, you'll still
>need an IGC Certified Flight Recorder. Minimum price
>I've seen is
>$750. None of which answers the original question,
>but I suspect the
>costs adjusted for inflation are very close. It should
>also be
>mentioned that there are dozens of ways to mess up
>a badge attempt
>using a Baro and camera, that just aren't an issue
>with a CFR.
>

I do agree that data loggers are too expensive, however IIRC new
Winter barographs were over $600 even 20 years ago.

On 13 Feb, 15:00, Tony Verhulst <n...@thankyou.com> wrote:
> Ian wrote:

> > flight verification (I believe we're losing ground observers as
> > well).
>
> You understand of course that whatever they may say, they're really
> doing it for convenience - *their* convenience.

Of course.

> > One answer, of course, is for another authority besides the FAI to
> > issue badges.
>
> Like that will ever happen.

Nothing to stop it. And while it's about it, the new badges could be
handicap linked. Silver in 50:1 is just taking the mickey.

Ian

On 13 Feb, 16:03, John Smith <j...@nosuchaddress.com> wrote:
> Ian wrote:
> > Thousands and thousands of us have mechanical barographs.
>
> I doubt.

We may not use 'em, but we have 'em.

ian

On 13 Feb, 17:54, "Tim Mara" <t...@wingsandwheels.com> wrote:

> Thousands have been sold....I know Replogel alone sold "to date" 3010 ...not
> many of these flying off the shelves today but I bet 90% of the ones sold
> are still out there sitting on someone's shelves

I just checked ... OK number 571 is on a shelf three feet from where
I'm sitting.

Ian

On Feb 13, 12:30 pm, Ian <ian.gro...@> wrote:
> On 13 Feb, 17:54, "Tim Mara" <t...@wingsandwheels.com> wrote:
>
> > Thousands have been sold....I know Replogel alone sold "to date" 3010 ....not
> > many of these flying off the shelves today but I bet 90% of the ones sold
> > are still out there sitting on someone's shelves
>
> I just checked ... OK number 571 is on a shelf three feet from where
> I'm sitting.
>
> Ian

.... and my smoke on foil clockwork wonder is resting in its shipping
box at home. Perhaps I'll send it off for calibration for 'one more
year' of use!
I believe the original subject was about cost of CFRs. Yes, they're
too high, but so are transceiver, transponders, etc. In my personal
experience over the last seven years (that's all the time I've been
flying) my fellow club members and I have purhased 4 bits of glider
electronics. Three radios and one transponder. Of these four high
priced items, 100% had issues that required manufacturer repair. IMO
$1,500 for a 5 watt transceiver is a lot of money for such incredibly
bad Qaulity Control. If these were consumer electronics, the
manufacturers would both be out of business.