Geauga Lakes Big Dipper SOLD!/SAVED

By the way, the latest news reports say that the Big Dipper will be
moved to be used as a "nostalgia piece" and will NOT be an operating
ride. I hope Cedar Fair rejects the sale. (They reserved that right.)

Rick

Lets not get crazy just yet..........Some saved coasters took years to
get rebuilt, Great Escapes Comet comes to mind. Other coasters sat idle
in outdoor storage only to rot away, Virginia's Shooting Star for
example. Willow Mill's Red Streaker was saved from the wrecking ball in
1994, but where is it??

This persons plan to buy the Big Dipper and re-erect it as a "Nostalgia
Piece" sounds crazy. A perfectly good ride should be set up to be
operated...........



harryface

Good point.

The best tracked coaster in terms of ride feel and smoothness I've
ever ridden was the GE Comet in the years when it ran with douglas fir
track. It's on a steel structure too. In a perfect world I do like the
aesthetics of an all-wood structure, but in some environments steel
makes more sense, so I'm not knocking them.

-m

> Really? I'd be interested in hearing what his reasoning was. Since many of
> them were built by a company that was rather infamous for poor construction,
> I'm not sure criticizing an entire type of woodie is merited. Especially as
> one of the most famous coasters of all time, the Coney Island Cyclone, is a
> steel-structured woodie!
>
> Derek

We didn't get into it other than mentioning that wood structures
"give" while steel is rigid. If I had to guess that may translate into
more stress on the track itself which of course is a big problem if
the ride owner doesn't believe in regular maintenance. Since he is the
in the coaster business, I have to assume he has good reasons for his
opinion.

Rick

> Second, your cost estimates seem high, perhaps as much as double. I'll
> have to check with my industry sources on that one, but Phoenix cost $1.5
> million to move in 1985 and indexing for inflation brings the cost to $2.95
> million, not $5-7 million. Any design modifications needed aren't likely to
> cost another $2 million plus.

It doesn't sound that high. With today's codes wouldn't the entire
ride need to be re-engineered, something not easy (i.e. cheap) since
there is nothing in AutoCAD, and re-built with additional bents and
track bracing? The project-specific liability policy for a firm
taking on a project like this would have to be a pretty penny. That
park was doomed the day Sea World was bought and as much as we would
have liked to have that ride moved to CP as what the general public
would have seen as a smaller Blue Streak, it wasn't in the cards for
this to happen. I have a hard time saying this was Cedar Fair's
fault, a lot of people screwed up to make this happen and saying what
should have happened on usenet doesn't change the ebb and flow of
business.

Adam

Mark Rosenzweig <stoneonta@********> wrote:
: ...Then there's another issue- the ride
: would have to be modified to meet today's ASTM requirements (i.e.
: clearance and other issues) if erected at a new site. While
: "grandfathered" in Aurora, the ride is useless elsewhere.

I'm not sure that would be all that difficult. Big Dipper is an
out-and-back ride, and clearances are really not a serious issue on that
ride. Most of the provisions of F 2291 (the current design standard)
allow for a lot of 'wiggle room' provided that a suitably qualified
individual is willing to conduct the appropriate analysis and give his
+approval. Section 6.6, for example, indicates that the clearance
envelope is intended to "minimize the opportunity for contact between
the patron and other objects where said contact is likely to cause
injury." That leaves a whole lot of leeway, especially since the
designer is (6.6.3) responsible for determining the shape and size of
the clearance envelope. The designer is given the ability to make
determinations based on reasonable expectations, and in fact 6.6.2 takes
into consideration the fact that there may be objects allowed within the
clearance envelope, but the ride analysis must specifically address
those objects. Even the infamous Section 6.4.3, the section that
specifies restraint types based on predicted accelerations, allows the
ride designer to effectively ignore the recommendations given in the
section provided that the design is done in accordance with a ride
analysis.

So you're really only half right. The ride might not require any
significant modifications to operate in accordance with ASTM F 2291.
But it will require that an engineer and a biodynamic expert perform
design and dynamic analysis on the ride and agree that the ride is
"safe".

: As a coaster fan, I absolutely agree that this ride will be a huge
: loss from a historical and ride standpoint. It was easily the best
: operating woodie in Ohio, and nearly the last of its kind from its
: respective designer(s).
:
: But in the end, the whole Geauga Lake situation is a shame. Blame Six
: Flags, blame Cedar Fair. Blame whoever you want. Bottom line is the
: park was drawing about half what it used to do *before* the two Aurora
: parks were meshed as one mega park. Whatever happened, the experience
: the park delivered its guests turned them off and they stopped
: clicking the turnstyles. In the end of the day, that's why Big Dipper
: will be demolished. That's why Villain (a potentially outstanding and
: marquee attraction) will be scrapped.

THAT is the real tragedy. In my opinion, Villain is a better coaster
than Big Dipper, but it needs (needed) serious track repair and a set of
decent trains. Both of which would be required anyway if the ride were
relocated. And there is a little park in Southwest Ohio that
*seriously* needs a marquee attraction. Because of flooding, moving
Ohio's best classic wood coaster, the Screechin' Eagle, really isn't an
option, but the galvanized structure of the Villain would have been an
almost perfect fit.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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