Getting to the Catskills from New York by rail

>I'm interested in travelling from JFK to the Catskills. What kind of
>rail links are there between New York and the Catskills, + which
>companies should I book train tickets from?

There are none. Short Line bus from Port Authority serves many
destinations in the Catskills. Adirondack Trailways way also go some
places. Some destinations, i.e., Monticello, have relatively frequent
service, others may run once a day.

To get to Port Authority from JFK take the Airtrain to either Howard
Beach or Jamaica, then take the A or E, respectively, to 42nd St. I
don't know which direction would be faster.
--
Peter Schleifer
"Save me from the people who would save me from myself"

J.R.Guthrie wrote:
> "Peter Schleifer" <pschleif@speakeasy.org> wrote in message
>
>> There are none. Short Line bus from Port Authority serves many
>> destinations in the Catskills. Adirondack Trailways way also go some
>> places. Some destinations, i.e., Monticello, have relatively frequent
>> service, others may run once a day.
>
> But his question wasn't how to get there by bus -- but by train . . . <g>
>
> You can even see the Catskills from the window of an Amtrak train.
>
> Cheers,
> Jim
>
>

Middletown or Port Jervis will get him close, but at some point he will
have to resort to a motor vehicle of some sort.

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:33:25 -0400, "J.R.Guthrie"
<jguthrie@pipeline.com> wrote:

>> Middletown or Port Jervis will get him close, but at some point he will
>> have to resort to a motor vehicle of some sort.
>
>As I suggested, there are people going to some towns in the Catskills who
>find a taxi from Middletown or Port Jervis cheaper than Short Line.

The other thing I must point out is that the Port Jervis line doesn't
have the level of service NY area rail patrons are accustomed to.
Because it's single track beginning just north of Suffern, trains are
generally about 3 hours apart. Good news is the weekend schedule
pretty much tracks the weekday schedule.

Personally, and I say this as a Hudson Valley resident, I'd take the
bus. It'll get you there faster and won't cost that much more.

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:33:25 -0400, "J.R.Guthrie"
> <jguthrie@pipeline.com> wrote:
>
>>> Middletown or Port Jervis will get him close, but at some point he will
>>> have to resort to a motor vehicle of some sort.
>> As I suggested, there are people going to some towns in the Catskills who
>> find a taxi from Middletown or Port Jervis cheaper than Short Line.
>
> The other thing I must point out is that the Port Jervis line doesn't
> have the level of service NY area rail patrons are accustomed to.
> Because it's single track beginning just north of Suffern, trains are
> generally about 3 hours apart. Good news is the weekend schedule
> pretty much tracks the weekday schedule.
>
> Personally, and I say this as a Hudson Valley resident, I'd take the
> bus. It'll get you there faster and won't cost that much more.

I figure if they do the cross-river service to offer transit where the
Tappan Zee is now, they'll probably at least add passing sidings to make
service more frequent.

Heck, the River LINE manages 15 minute headways with its single track.

Maybe they could use the freight line along the west side of the Hudson
too.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:19 -0400, Bolwerk <no@way.org2> wrote:

>Cyrus Afzali wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:33:25 -0400, "J.R.Guthrie"
>> <jguthrie@pipeline.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Middletown or Port Jervis will get him close, but at some point he will
>>>> have to resort to a motor vehicle of some sort.
>>> As I suggested, there are people going to some towns in the Catskills who
>>> find a taxi from Middletown or Port Jervis cheaper than Short Line.
>>
>> The other thing I must point out is that the Port Jervis line doesn't
>> have the level of service NY area rail patrons are accustomed to.
>> Because it's single track beginning just north of Suffern, trains are
>> generally about 3 hours apart. Good news is the weekend schedule
>> pretty much tracks the weekday schedule.
>>
>> Personally, and I say this as a Hudson Valley resident, I'd take the
>> bus. It'll get you there faster and won't cost that much more.
>
>I figure if they do the cross-river service to offer transit where the
>Tappan Zee is now, they'll probably at least add passing sidings to make
>service more frequent.

As I've said before, I think the Port Authority's takeover of Stewart
might be a factor here. Of course that brings up the fact that we have
a lot of interregional infighting among different agencies, which
doesn't help the cause. If there were better cooperation between the
PA and MTA in terms of compatible transportation systems, making
improvements to the PJ line to support more frequent and a quicker
trip to Stewart would be much easier.
>
>Heck, the River LINE manages 15 minute headways with its single track.
>
>Maybe they could use the freight line along the west side of the Hudson
>too.

It's possible. Matter of fact, the Port Jervis line north of Suffern
is owned by Norfolk Southern anyway.

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:19 -0400, Bolwerk <no@way.org2> wrote:
>
>> Cyrus Afzali wrote:
>>> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:33:25 -0400, "J.R.Guthrie"
>>> <jguthrie@pipeline.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Middletown or Port Jervis will get him close, but at some point he will
>>>>> have to resort to a motor vehicle of some sort.
>>>> As I suggested, there are people going to some towns in the Catskills who
>>>> find a taxi from Middletown or Port Jervis cheaper than Short Line.
>>> The other thing I must point out is that the Port Jervis line doesn't
>>> have the level of service NY area rail patrons are accustomed to.
>>> Because it's single track beginning just north of Suffern, trains are
>>> generally about 3 hours apart. Good news is the weekend schedule
>>> pretty much tracks the weekday schedule.
>>>
>>> Personally, and I say this as a Hudson Valley resident, I'd take the
>>> bus. It'll get you there faster and won't cost that much more.
>> I figure if they do the cross-river service to offer transit where the
>> Tappan Zee is now, they'll probably at least add passing sidings to make
>> service more frequent.
>
> As I've said before, I think the Port Authority's takeover of Stewart
> might be a factor here. Of course that brings up the fact that we have
> a lot of interregional infighting among different agencies, which
> doesn't help the cause. If there were better cooperation between the
> PA and MTA in terms of compatible transportation systems, making
> improvements to the PJ line to support more frequent and a quicker
> trip to Stewart would be much easier.

Well, you can imagine this might be even more difficult, since NJ
Transit is a player as well.

Ironically, if this happens, Stewart may become more convenient by rail
than any other of the region's airports. JFK is bad, Newark is probably
worse, and LaGuardia is almost non-existent.

>> Heck, the River LINE manages 15 minute headways with its single track.
>>
>> Maybe they could use the freight line along the west side of the Hudson
>> too.
>
> It's possible. Matter of fact, the Port Jervis line north of Suffern
> is owned by Norfolk Southern anyway.

I think the NYS part of the line is leased from NS, though there's an
option available to the MTA to buy it outright.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:05:26 -0400, "J.R.Guthrie"
<jguthrie@pipeline.com> wrote:

>> First you need to take H.G. Wells' Time Machine back to 1957. Connect
>> *then* for the New York, Ontario and Western.
>
>You'd have to hop a freight. But Summer 1953 works.

Memories of my summers in Mountaindale (late 1940s) when the NYO&W ran
directly behind our rental cottage and I learned about the Doppler
effect when the train would whistle for the crossing just south of the
station.
--

"Stand Clear of the Closing Doors, Please"

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:45:27 -0400, Bolwerk <no@way.org2> wrote:

>Cyrus Afzali wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:19 -0400, Bolwerk <no@way.org2> wrote:
>>
>>> Cyrus Afzali wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:33:25 -0400, "J.R.Guthrie"
>>>> <jguthrie@pipeline.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Middletown or Port Jervis will get him close, but at some point he will
>>>>>> have to resort to a motor vehicle of some sort.
>>>>> As I suggested, there are people going to some towns in the Catskills who
>>>>> find a taxi from Middletown or Port Jervis cheaper than Short Line.
>>>> The other thing I must point out is that the Port Jervis line doesn't
>>>> have the level of service NY area rail patrons are accustomed to.
>>>> Because it's single track beginning just north of Suffern, trains are
>>>> generally about 3 hours apart. Good news is the weekend schedule
>>>> pretty much tracks the weekday schedule.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, and I say this as a Hudson Valley resident, I'd take the
>>>> bus. It'll get you there faster and won't cost that much more.
>>> I figure if they do the cross-river service to offer transit where the
>>> Tappan Zee is now, they'll probably at least add passing sidings to make
>>> service more frequent.
>>
>> As I've said before, I think the Port Authority's takeover of Stewart
>> might be a factor here. Of course that brings up the fact that we have
>> a lot of interregional infighting among different agencies, which
>> doesn't help the cause. If there were better cooperation between the
>> PA and MTA in terms of compatible transportation systems, making
>> improvements to the PJ line to support more frequent and a quicker
>> trip to Stewart would be much easier.
>
>Well, you can imagine this might be even more difficult, since NJ
>Transit is a player as well.

NJ Transit's role is much more limited on the PJ line. It's a partner
agency on the Main/Bergen line that runs as far as Suffern in every
respect. On the Port Jervis line, however, the MTA kicks in a lot of
money to NJT as part of an agreement that has the agency contributing
equipment and staffing the line's operations. In theory, it's more of
an operating agreement than a partnership because MTA maintains the
infrastructure north of Suffern.
>
>Ironically, if this happens, Stewart may become more convenient by rail
>than any other of the region's airports. JFK is bad, Newark is probably
>worse, and LaGuardia is almost non-existent.
>
>>> Heck, the River LINE manages 15 minute headways with its single track.
>>>
>>> Maybe they could use the freight line along the west side of the Hudson
>>> too.
>>
>> It's possible. Matter of fact, the Port Jervis line north of Suffern
>> is owned by Norfolk Southern anyway.
>
>I think the NYS part of the line is leased from NS, though there's an
>option available to the MTA to buy it outright.

If you lease something, someone else still owns it. I don't know about
any option to purchase it, but the line itself is owned by Norfolk
Sourthern, although the MTA does conduct track maintenance on the
line.

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
>
> If you lease something, someone else still owns it. I don't know about
> any option to purchase it, but the line itself is owned by Norfolk
> Sourthern, although the MTA does conduct track maintenance on the
> line.

Right, I'm just going from memory here. I think NS owns the entire
line, at least in NY, but the MTA has leased it, and has an option to
buy it.

Certainly the MTA does maintenance. Is there even still any freight
south/east of Port Jervis?