Metro-North - New Haven Line - catenary operation

I visit NYC every few years....

Many years ago, trains from NYC to New Haven would switch from 3rd
rail to catenary just after the split from the Brewster line. When I
rode the train to NYC a few weeks ago, the switchover point has moved
about 2 miles east. Why/when did they move the switch point?

On 3/10/2008 6:59 PM, NadCixelsyd wrote:
> I visit NYC every few years....
>
> Many years ago, trains from NYC to New Haven would switch from 3rd
> rail to catenary just after the split from the Brewster line. When I
> rode the train to NYC a few weeks ago, the switchover point has moved
> about 2 miles east. Why/when did they move the switch point?
As far as I know they switch over right outside of the Pelham station

--
" Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"
-- Albert Einstein

IIRC it was moved around 1989.

In the NYNH&H days, catenary ended at the New York Central property line --
i.e. on a curve and a grade.

Cheers,
Jim



"Glenn Klein" <Glenn@m> wrote in message
news:47d5d7d7$0$5639$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> On 3/10/2008 6:59 PM, NadCixelsyd wrote:
>> I visit NYC every few years....
>>
>> Many years ago, trains from NYC to New Haven would switch from 3rd
>> rail to catenary just after the split from the Brewster line. When I
>> rode the train to NYC a few weeks ago, the switchover point has moved
>> about 2 miles east. Why/when did they move the switch point?
> As far as I know they switch over right outside of the Pelham station
>
> --
> " Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"
> -- Albert Einstein

> IIRC it was moved around 1989.
>
> In the NYNH&H days, catenary ended at the New York Central property line --  
> i.e. on a curve and a grade.
>
Thanks for the "When". Why was it moved? Was it moved because of the
curve/grade or for some other reason?

I had always assumed that the movement occurred because 3rd rail is
less expensive to maintain than catenary. (isn't it?)

NadCixelsyd wrote:
>> IIRC it was moved around 1989.
>>
>> In the NYNH&H days, catenary ended at the New York Central property line --
>> i.e. on a curve and a grade.
>>
> Thanks for the "When". Why was it moved? Was it moved because of the
> curve/grade or for some other reason?
>
> I had always assumed that the movement occurred because 3rd rail is
> less expensive to maintain than catenary. (isn't it?)

My understanding is overhead wire is easier to maintain, and overall
cheaper to install.

(Not that third rail doesn't have advantages. In tight subway tunnels
it obviously makes sense.)

>
> My understanding is overhead wire is easier to maintain, and overall
> cheaper to install.
>
You may be correct, but..... If that is the case, why are the Hudson &
Harlem lines third-rail only? It is my understanding that the New
Haven line is catenary because Connecticut law prohibits 3rd rail
operation.

"NadCixelsyd" <nadcixelsyd@> wrote in message
news:5b384098-f2f8-4f99-8fa0-156aa069d886@s50g2000hsb..com...

Thanks for the "When". Why was it moved? Was it moved because of the
curve/grade or for some other reason?

Get it off the curve and grade. And as Metro North now owned both
properties, there was no reason not to fix it for better reliability.

>I had always assumed that the movement occurred because 3rd rail is
>less expensive to maintain than catenary. (isn't it?)

Catenary is generally cheaper nowadays for a whole variety of reasons.

Connecticut once passed a law against thrid rail because the NH had
installed "center" third rail -- a la Lionel (like on the Bristol Branch)
which were kind of dangerous, especially at grade crossings.

Cheers,
Jim

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:04:50 -0700 (PDT), NadCixelsyd
<nadcixelsyd@> wrote:

>>
>> My understanding is overhead wire is easier to maintain, and overall
>> cheaper to install.
>>
>You may be correct, but..... If that is the case, why are the Hudson &
>Harlem lines third-rail only? It is my understanding that the New
>Haven line is catenary because Connecticut law prohibits 3rd rail
>operation.

Since this all goes back to before World War II, we are talking about
historic differences but catenary was definitely better for power
distribution and getting more power to the trains. The New Haven had
locomotive hauled freight trains in addition to the passenger trains
so this was more important to them.

Clark Morris

NadCixelsyd wrote:
>> My understanding is overhead wire is easier to maintain, and overall
>> cheaper to install.
>>
> You may be correct, but..... If that is the case, why are the Hudson &
> Harlem lines third-rail only? It is my understanding that the New
> Haven line is catenary because Connecticut law prohibits 3rd rail
> operation.

I have no idea, but it's a done deal thanks to history now. Maybe it
has something to do with being in the tunnels in NYC?

It's also expensive to have to buy customized equipment that handles
both, I reckon.

>You may be correct, but..... If that is the
>case, why are the Hudson & Harlem lines
>third-rail only?

New York Central committed itself to third rail. The NY, NH and Hartford
decided to go with catenary. Both were seperate railroad entities until
1968.

--
"Whatever you do, don't stick your head in the oven" - Keith Hernandez,
on how to end a batting slump