Riders Still Waiting For MTA To Take Over Private Bus Lines

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:37:47 GMT, "Joseph D. Korman"
<joekor@thejoekorner.com> wrote:


>That's a false assumption. Just because the MTA (TA actually) purchases
>fuel in bulk and probably gets a discount, it's not as large a discount
>as you might think, since the delivers are to the individual depots.
>
>Same with parts (assuming that there are enough of one type of bus for
>bulk parts), although the TA uses a central parts delivery and uses its
>own trucks to distribute them to the depots.

at the rate that the MTA buys fuel the cost of fuel is the same as any
other large volume purchaser. they don't pay retail but they do pay
the market price

psa188@juno.com (Bill Hough) wrote in message news:<a4d71f0c.0309170542.4f155af5@ com>...
> From NY1
>
>
>
>
>
> Riders Still Waiting For MTA To Take Over Private Bus Lines
> SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2003

if the MTA is a governemnt-run entity subsidised with tax money, once
they take over private companies, you can sit back, relax, and watch
how service quality drops like flies. happens with practically every
government monopoly.

-snip propaganda-

mmanch01@my-deja.com (maky m.) wrote in message news:<188f56bf.0309211421.33b643df@ com>...
> psa188@juno.com (Bill Hough) wrote in message news:<a4d71f0c.0309170542.4f155af5@ com>...
> > From NY1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Riders Still Waiting For MTA To Take Over Private Bus Lines
> > SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2003
>
> if the MTA is a governemnt-run entity subsidised with tax money, once
> they take over private companies, you can sit back, relax, and watch
> how service quality drops like flies. happens with practically every
> government monopoly.
>
> -snip propaganda-

The private bus companies in New York are *also* subsidized. They are,
however, *not* held to the same standards the MTA requires of their own
service. Basically they are inferior contractors. Transit isn't really a
government "monopoly"...there's no way to make it profitable (in the USA under
current USA economic conditions); no private company would touch it with a 10
foot pole unless they were getting a subsidy.... Sometimes the subsidized
private companies are better than direct government operations but in NYC they
definitely are *not*!

"Dave Wallace" <davew1010@att.net> wrote

> I say leave it with the privates, give them the $100 Million subsidy and
> enjoy the superior service that the privates will offer compared to the
MTA.

The private bus companies vary a lot in the quality of their service. I
used to ride Triboro daily and Queens Surface occasionally. Triboro almost
always had working air conditioning. Queens Surface almost never had
working air conditioning. Both operated similar fleets of city-owned buses.
Queens Surface buses looked awful after only a few months in service with
things like engine covers flapping open and fuel filler doors missing.

The current system of subsidies doesn't provide any incentive for the
private bus companies to provide good service or even to maintain the
equipment provided by the city.

John Mara

"John Mara" <johnmara@nycap.> wrote in message news:<LzMbb.97929$yG2.2069@twister.nyroc.>.. .
> "Dave Wallace" <davew1010@att.net> wrote
>
> > I say leave it with the privates, give them the $100 Million subsidy and
> > enjoy the superior service that the privates will offer compared to the
> MTA.
>
> The private bus companies vary a lot in the quality of their service. I
> used to ride Triboro daily and Queens Surface occasionally. Triboro almost
> always had working air conditioning. Queens Surface almost never had
> working air conditioning. Both operated similar fleets of city-owned buses.
> Queens Surface buses looked awful after only a few months in service with
> things like engine covers flapping open and fuel filler doors missing.
>
> The current system of subsidies doesn't provide any incentive for the
> private bus companies to provide good service or even to maintain the
> equipment provided by the city.
>
> John Mara

Seems like John is right in that the bus companies tend to vary alot
in the quality of service they provide. Here in the Bronx, we are
lucky to have two excellent carriers - Liberty Lines and New York Bus.
In both cases, the equipment in clean, A/C almost always works, buses
rarely break down and service level is adequate - probably superior to
anything the MTA would cook up for us.

So I can see John's point when he suggests that riders of Queens
Service might benefit from a takeover by the MTA of their lines. But
I can also say that the only result we'd have from an MTA takeover of
lines in the Bronx would be a serious downgrade in service.

davew1010@att.net (Dave Wallace) wrote in message news:<23e40499.0309230612.3ee9870@c om>...
> "John Mara" <johnmara@nycap.> wrote in message news:<LzMbb.97929$yG2.2069@twister.nyroc.>.. .
> > "Dave Wallace" <davew1010@att.net> wrote
> >
> > The private bus companies vary a lot in the quality of their service. I
> > used to ride Triboro daily and Queens Surface occasionally. Triboro almost
> > always had working air conditioning. Queens Surface almost never had
> > working air conditioning. Both operated similar fleets of city-owned buses.
> > Queens Surface buses looked awful after only a few months in service with
> > things like engine covers flapping open and fuel filler doors missing.
> >
> > The current system of subsidies doesn't provide any incentive for the
> > private bus companies to provide good service or even to maintain the
> > equipment provided by the city.
> >
> > John Mara
>
> Seems like John is right in that the bus companies tend to vary alot
> in the quality of service they provide. Here in the Bronx, we are
> lucky to have two excellent carriers - Liberty Lines and New York Bus.
> In both cases, the equipment in clean, A/C almost always works, buses
> rarely break down and service level is adequate - probably superior to
> anything the MTA would cook up for us.
>
> So I can see John's point when he suggests that riders of Queens
> Service might benefit from a takeover by the MTA of their lines. But
> I can also say that the only result we'd have from an MTA takeover of
> lines in the Bronx would be a serious downgrade in service.

Interestingly enough, all of the private bus lines (except for
Surface) in Queens are really owned by Green Bus Lines, though they
seem to be operated independent of one another. (Note for instance,
that Green Lines does not operate any CNG coaches while their
subsidiary carriers do.)

It is my belief that New York Bus Service is able to consistantly
provide good express transit service because they are not burdened
with having to operate any local service in the Bronx. The rest of
their business is running school buses and bookmobiles. Liberty Lines
Express is in almost a similar situation though their sister operation
Liberty Lines Transit supplies drivers for the Bee Line bus system in
Westchester County.

Rapid T. Rabbit
The "T" stands for Transit.

72376.3650@compuserve.com (Rapid T. Rabbit) wrote:
> It is my belief that New York Bus Service is able to consistantly
> provide good express transit service because they are not burdened
> with having to operate any local service in the Bronx. The rest of
> their business is running school buses and bookmobiles.

It's interesting to hear these excellent reviews of New York Bus
Service, considering they have the oldest bus fleet of any operation
in NYC. It shows that age of equipment isn't a problem if it is
maintained properly.

-Apr

AllstonParkingRefugee@m (Allston Parking Refugee) wrote in message news:<84589925.0309241047.2737476@c om>...
> 72376.3650@compuserve.com (Rapid T. Rabbit) wrote:
> > It is my belief that New York Bus Service is able to consistantly
> > provide good express transit service because they are not burdened
> > with having to operate any local service in the Bronx. The rest of
> > their business is running school buses and bookmobiles.
>
> It's interesting to hear these excellent reviews of New York Bus
> Service, considering they have the oldest bus fleet of any operation
> in NYC. It shows that age of equipment isn't a problem if it is
> maintained properly.
>
> -Apr

APR - I like your observation on age vs. upkeep. My wife gets a big
kick from NYBS's meticulously parked buses along the NE Thruway.
Isaac

arizonadreaming@m (John Wilson) wrote in message news:<3697a456.0309220628.2de96d6@c om>...
> mmanch01@my-deja.com (maky m.) wrote in message news:<188f56bf.0309211421.33b643df@ com>...
> > psa188@juno.com (Bill Hough) wrote in message news:<a4d71f0c.0309170542.4f155af5@ com>...
> > > From NY1
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Riders Still Waiting For MTA To Take Over Private Bus Lines
> > > SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2003
> >
> > if the MTA is a governemnt-run entity subsidised with tax money, once
> > they take over private companies, you can sit back, relax, and watch
> > how service quality drops like flies. happens with practically every
> > government monopoly.
> >
> > -snip propaganda-
>
> The private bus companies in New York are *also* subsidized. They are,
> however, *not* held to the same standards the MTA requires of their own
> service. Basically they are inferior contractors.

let me get this straight. private bus companies in NYC are governement
subsidised?

that explains why they are "inferior contractors."

> Transit isn't really a government "monopoly"...

now you are contradicting yourself.

assuming MTA is subsidised with taxes and assuming your disclosure
about privates being subsidised with tax dollars is correct, we have a
governemnt monopoly, if not, one in the making as implied by the
subject line of this discussion.

> there's no way to make it profitable (in the USA under
> current USA economic conditions);

government monopolies are profitable financially and in terms of power
for the bureaucrats on top. and as far as the workers are concerned,
corruption keeps them stable.

> no private company would touch it with a 10
> foot pole unless they were getting a subsidy....

in NYC? of course they would touch it. 3+ million customers can be
enticeing.

> Sometimes the subsidized private companies are better than direct
> government operations but in NYC they definitely are *not*!

private companies that are subsidised in anything are generally as
worthless as government is. the reason they are is because of the
governement itself.

isaacbrumer@m (Isaac Brumer) wrote in message news:<4b814c85.0309241436.643c84bb@ com>...
> AllstonParkingRefugee@m (Allston Parking Refugee) wrote in message news:<84589925.0309241047.2737476@c om>...
> > 72376.3650@compuserve.com (Rapid T. Rabbit) wrote:
> > > It is my belief that New York Bus Service is able to consistantly
> > > provide good express transit service because they are not burdened
> > > with having to operate any local service in the Bronx. The rest of
> > > their business is running school buses and bookmobiles.
> >
> > It's interesting to hear these excellent reviews of New York Bus
> > Service, considering they have the oldest bus fleet of any operation
> > in NYC. It shows that age of equipment isn't a problem if it is
> > maintained properly.
> >
> > -Apr
>
> APR - I like your observation on age vs. upkeep. My wife gets a big
> kick from NYBS's meticulously parked buses along the NE Thruway.
> Isaac

Re Age vs. upkeep, TTC (Toronto) has 30 and 40 year old Fishbowls in
regular service. With proper maintenance, this equipment can last a
very long time.

As for NYBS in particular, I believe they have a culture in their
company and especially in their maintenance shop that requires
excellent workmanship.

Now I want to be very careful not to paint all employees of the MTA
with the same brush. Nevertheless - my perception is that MTA garages
won't maintain bus fleets as well as NYBS or LL does. I wonder if
they take the same pride in their work that NYBS or LL employees do.
Obviously some must. But as a percentage - are there enough of the
good employees at the MTA garages who would take pride in their work
compared to NYBS or LL?