Metro-North/NJT Meadowlands Service

[Phil Kane]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:17:33 -0400, Cyrus Afzali <pnsmnyv@lnubb.pbz>
wrote:

>. I'm not saying
>people should be worked like dogs, but the fact is over-the-road truck
>drivers can legally log 11 hours in a 24 hour period and you don't see
>people dying en masse from truck accidents.

IIRC FRA standards are 12 hours on duty and 10 hours "rest" before
returning to duty. The 10 hours may have been increased to 12 in
recent changes in calculation of Hours of Service.
--

"Stand Clear of the Closing Doors, Please"

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

[Phil Kane]

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 00:46:32 -0400, "Ed\(NY\)" <ebny@**************>
wrote:

>>>There are also long delays at Washington DC's Union Station for trains
>>>headed to the South.

>> IIRC those through trains also switch power from electric to diesel
>> and vice versa.
>
>Prior to Penn Central's takeover of the New Haven RR, the handful of through
>trains changed engines in NYC. They typically used all-electric NH engines
>(such as EP-5's) and then switched to PRR GG-1's. You didn't start seeing
>GG-1's north of NYC until after the PC took over the NH.

I was referring to the engine change at WUS as well as car shuffles as
needed (been on one).
--

"Stand Clear of the Closing Doors, Please"

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

[Jimmy]

"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@************> wrote:
> Jimmy <JimmyGeldb...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> > Michael Finfer <fin...@**************> wrote:
> > > On the weekend, at least six. From what I've seen, most crews lay over
> > > for about 90 minutes between trips.
>
> > Why do they schedule the crews to spend so much time not doing
> > anything?
>
> Have you heard any of the news reports about the commuter plane crash
> in Buffalo this spring?

Yes, and they focused on ice and pilot error. Fatigue was mentioned
as a secondary issue, but it wasn't due to a short layover between
flights. The pilot had logged onto the airline's computer system in
the middle of the previous night, and the co-pilot had taken a redeye
and had a cold.

Are 90-minute layovers after each run to prevent crew fatigue a
standard practice among U.S. passenger railroads? They certainly
aren't for transit systems.

Jimmy

[Cyrus Afzali]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:29:15 -0400, Peter Schleifer
<pschleif@speakeasy.org> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:17:33 -0400, Cyrus Afzali <pnsmnyv@lnubb.pbz>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:28:07 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>><grammatim@************> wrote:
>>
>>>On Jun 30, 11:16*am, Jimmy <JimmyGeldb...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>>> Michael Finfer <fin...@**************> wrote:
>>>> > On the weekend, at least six. *From what I've seen, most crews lay over
>>>> > for about 90 minutes between trips.
>>>>
>>>> Why do they schedule the crews to spend so much time not doing
>>>> anything?
>>>
>>>Have you heard any of the news reports about the commuter plane crash
>>>in Buffalo this spring?
>>
>>Open and closing doors and flying a plane at lower altitudes through
>>turbulent weather are really the same thing. Good God. I'm not saying
>>people should be worked like dogs, but the fact is over-the-road truck
>>drivers can legally log 11 hours in a 24 hour period and you don't see
>>people dying en masse from truck accidents.
>
>Actually you do, it just doesn't get as much attention. Certainly
>more people are killed in accidents caused by drowsy truckers than by
>drowsy pilots.

Certainly they are, but truckers aren't the leading cause of highway
accidents. I covered trucking for a major business newspaper in
Nashville, which is one of the trucking hubs of the country since
freight can reach 80 percent of the country's population within a
day's drive from N'ville. Despite having three interstate highways
converging in one city, along with loops, etc. and despite having
major trucking companies headquartered there, you didn't see a rash of
truck-induced accidents.

[Stephen Sprunk]

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:29:15 -0400, Peter Schleifer
> <pschleif@speakeasy.org> wrote:
>> Actually you do, it just doesn't get as much attention. Certainly
>> more people are killed in accidents caused by drowsy truckers than by
>> drowsy pilots.
>
> Certainly they are, but truckers aren't the leading cause of highway
> accidents.

No, drunk drivers are. (It's been trending down for decades but was
still 37% in 2007; it was 60% in 1982.)

Statistically, the more miles a person drives, the lower their accident
rate per mile. Long-haul truckers drive the most miles of anyone in the
country and are a tiny segment of the population, so they aren't a
significant cause of accidents. However, when they do have one, it
tends to be a serious one simply due to the size and weight of the
vehicle (often filled with hazmat) that they're driving. That's why it
makes the news.

Drowsy airline pilots are also rare due to the hours-of-service
regulations which are generally well-enforced (unlike for truckers), but
they tend to kill dozens to hundreds of people when it happens. That's
why it makes the news.

Drowsy car drivers and private pilots cause accidents every day, killing
far more people per year, which is why those _don't_ make the news.

Remember: If something makes the news, it's rare enough that you don't
need to worry about it. Worry about the stuff that doesn't.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Isaac Jaffe

[Phil Kane]

On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:04:16 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
<stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:

> However, when they do have one, it
>tends to be a serious one simply due to the size and weight of the
>vehicle (often filled with hazmat) that they're driving. That's why it
>makes the news.

The vast majority of long-haul HazMat is by rail.
--

"Stand Clear of the Closing Doors, Please"

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

[Phil Kane]

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:36:23 -0400, FreeTrav <me@************> wrote:

>Because catenary service does not extend all the way to Grand Central -
>from Pelham to Grand Central, the service is the standard underrunning
>third rail that is also used by the Harlem and Hudson lines.

I forget - does the Amtrak service that runs from Albany to NYP use
third rail or diesel before it splits off the MNRR into NYP (Harlem
River ?) It's been 9 years since I was on it.
--

"Stand Clear of the Closing Doors, Please"

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

[Michael Finfer]

Analysis&Solutions wrote:
> In <_5idnRL2DvHDEtLXnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@earthlink.com> "J.R.Guthrie" <jguthrie@pipeline.com> writes:
>
>> So, while we're on this subject, will the trains from Connecticut sit for 20
>> minutes in NYP for no apparent reason like everything else that runs
>> "through" ?
>
> I read the schedule the other day. I think the layover is 12 minutes.
>
> --Dan

On train 7846/3646 the layover is 28 minutes. I have no idea why.

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

[hounslow3]

On 2009-06-27 13:35:46 +0100, Michael Finfer <finfer@**************> said:

> Ed(NY) wrote:
>> I wish there could be service thru Penna. Station where the trains
>> didn't have to sit 10 minutes or more.
>>
>> I assume the reason for the dwell time is because it's important that
>> these trains depart (NJ-bound, at least) on schedule, so the padded
>> time is built in to compensate for a late arrival.
>>
>> What's the deal with the extra-long wait times on the north/east bound trains?
>
> The only thing I can think of is that it's padding to allow for delays
> caused by defective concrete tie replacement.
>
> I suspect there might be a crew change at NYP as well.

What kind of rolling stock are they using? And wouldn't their be
compatibility issues to be addressed once trains cross onto the Harlem
River Branch?

[Michael Finfer]

FreeTrav wrote:

> I was aware of the third-rail, I wasn't aware that Amtrak _had_ any
> third-rail capable dual-modes (I figured they'd all be catenary for the
> Corridor). Again, thank you for increasing my knowledge.

Catenary-AC power dual modes do not exist in North America. NJ
Transit's 30+ unit experiment in this area will be the first.

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ