How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?

Matthew Geier wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:35:07 -0500, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
>> Today, many of the better banks have "intelligent" systems that try to
>> spot detect fraud based on usage patterns. If you rarely traveled out
>> of your city/country or made large purchases, they might flag such
>> transactions at the time of sale and either deny them, require the
>> merchant call them, or even now call the customer's cell phone to
>> verify.
>
> My bank definitely does this - last year just before a trip to Germany I
> bought a whole pile of advance purchase DB tickets on-line. A few days
> later I got a phone call from my bank asking about a number of
> transactions from Germany. The operator said she had noted down against
> my account that I was about to travel to Europe after I explained why I
> was buying DB tickets with my card.

A few days later? That's not very helpful.

Many years ago, I made a purchase of about USD 5000 at a computer store
for work; while I was at the register waiting for the approval, my
mobile phone rang and it was someone from AmEx calling to see if I was
the one making the purchase. I confirmed everything was fine and within
seconds the register got the approval and spit out the receipt for me to
sign. Prior to that, I think the largest purchase I'd made on the card
was USD 250, so I have to admit it was rather suspicious and can't blame
them for wanting to be sure.

When I first started traveling for work, my debit card would frequently
come up with "Call Bank" when I first tried using it in a new city; I
had to call in and tell them everything was okay, and then the charge
would get approved on the next attempt -- and any others in that state
or country until I charged something again back home. After a dozen or
more trips in less than a year, that apparently became "normal" for my
account and I stopped having to call in. That bit me eventually,
because a few years later my card number got stolen and the crooks went
on a five-state shopping spree; I got the money back, but it took a few
weeks and dozens of police reports. If I didn't have a "pattern" of
traveling all the time, their charges would have been denied immediately...

S

Nobody wrote:
>> On 27 Jun 2008 19:52:56 GMT, Rian van der Borgt <rvdborgt+@evonet.be>
>> wrote:
>>> Here in Belgium, bus/tram drivers are also very reluctant to eccept 50
>>> euro notes, simply because they often don't have enough change for them.
>>
>> Most buses in the UK do not accept GBP20 notes for the same reason.
>
> And then in this section of North America at least (Metro Vancouver),
> you have to have EXACT coin change to pay on board a bus...

AFAIK, that is the case for all buses in the US as well. Exact cash
fares are required, though many systems will let you overpay if you
don't demand change (i.e. they'll let you pay USD2 for a USD1.50 fare).

There are many reasons for this. The most obvious is that making change
increases dwell time, which slows the bus down. The more important one,
though, is that this way the driver does not handle any money; the fare
goes directly from the passenger's hands into a lockbox, which reduces
the risks of both driver theft and robbery.

> ticket machines at SkyTrain/SeaBus stations will accept bills to $20
> and make change, as well as accept credit/debit cards... once the fare
> is paid, the ticket/transfer is valid across the whole transit system
> (bus/train/ferry), depending on the zone/s paid for.

AFAIK, all TVMs in the US and Canada will accept $20 bills. The problem
with doing that is the change you get: a USD1.50 ticket here means
twenty coins (18x$1, 2x25c) in change from a USD20 bill, and that's
enough weight and bulk to seriously annoy you. As a result, I rarely
see anyone using bills larger than $5 at our TVMs.

S

Nobody wrote:
>> In article <485ff1b6.111159604@news.> wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) writes:
>>> I found a (Visa)
>>> debit card to be an extremely convenient way of paying just over
>>> gbp7,000 for a car a few years ago, certainly compared to the risk of
>>> cash or the cost and inconvenience of a banker's cheque.
>> Also credit cards are limited in the maximum amount and I think those
>> gbp7,000 would exceed my limit.
>>
>> Note moreover that in the Netherlands most people do not have credit
>> cards for two of reasons:
>> (1) It costs money to get a credit card
>
> Costs to "get" a credit card?
>
>> (2) It is possible that a retailer asks you to pay more if you pay
>> by credit card
>
> Pay more to use a cr card for a transaction?
>
> Lordy, in North America, both scenarios would lead to loud guffaws,
> and protests along the lines of.. "you want my business?".

Those were exactly my reactions. In the US, while a few cards (notably
AmEx) charge an annual fee, most don't and there are many where the bank
pays _you_ for having and using the card (usually a rebate of 1-2% of
purchases, if you pay your full balance each month). Store cards will
often give you 3-12 months to pay with no interest.

I get the impression that folks in Europe only get credit cards from the
bank that they have checking/savings accounts with. That is rare in the
US; most people get a debit/ATM card linked to their checking account,
but get their credit cards from another bank and use checks to pay the
bills. Debit cards are also relatively recent here, having been
introduced in the 90s to fight retail check fraud, while credit cards
were introduced decades earlier.

It's also illegal for US merchants to charge _more_ for using a credit
card, though they're allowed to offer a discount off the posted price if
you pay with cash.

Another major difference I'm sensing is transaction limits. My debit
card has daily limits of USD 500 for ATM and USD 1000 for ATM+POS, which
seems to be typical. In contrast, credit cards will generally let you
charge up to your credit line in a single day, and that could be
thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.

S

In message <Pjx9k.492$zv7.60@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>, at 15:39:45 on Sat,
28 Jun 2008, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> remarked:
>I get the impression that folks in Europe only get credit cards from
>the bank that they have checking/savings accounts with.

I don't get that impression at all. Especially as many of the more
aggressively marketed cards are not associated with conventional banks.

(eg Egg, Goldfish, Capital One etc).
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:37:39 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <Pjx9k.492$zv7.60@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>, at 15:39:45 on Sat,
>28 Jun 2008, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> remarked:
>>I get the impression that folks in Europe only get credit cards from
>>the bank that they have checking/savings accounts with.
>
>I don't get that impression at all. Especially as many of the more
>aggressively marketed cards are not associated with conventional banks.
>
>(eg Egg,Citigroup
>
>Goldfish,
>
Barclays Bank

>Capital One etc).

>On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:39:45 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
><stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
>
>>Another major difference I'm sensing is transaction limits. My debit
>>card has daily limits of USD 500 for ATM and USD 1000 for ATM+POS, which
>>seems to be typical. In contrast, credit cards will generally let you
>>charge up to your credit line in a single day, and that could be
>>thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.

Ah, my "convenience card" (i.e. in my case, Canadian Imperial Bank of
Commerce's ATM access and credit card) limits me to $1,000/day
withdrawal from my chequing account, but also allows me to bill up to
$11,000 in a "single transaction" to my credit card account.

I guess I'm a trusted client... but I still do not have, nor want,
debit card access.

>
>In the UK, it's usual for there to be a daily limit for ATM (250 quid
>springs to mind for mine, and you can have them reduced - many
>students living in bad areas do this to reduce the impact if they get
>mugged and taken at knifepoint to the ATM), but it's not usual for
>there to be a POS hard-limit, just an unpublished and potentially
>variable one at which a transaction might be "referred" to confirm it
>is genuine.
>
>With credit cards, however, we're closer to the US - my main card pays
>me 0.5% to use it, and there is no annual fee. In the UK it is
>similarly unusual for there to be a monthly charge for a current
>account other than those with bundled premium services; some (like
>mine) even pay credit interest. The way the money is made is by way
>of charges and interest for those who overdraw their accounts or
>borrow on credit cards.
>
>Neil

"Nobody" <jock@soccer.com> wrote in message
news:jhrd64hb2rqtlhl8iihe252hdtm4sqm7ik@...

> Canadian $2 coins (twoonies) and $1 coins (loonies) get rid of a lot
> of that jingle-jangle!

Any truth to rumours that the Canadians plan to introduce a 5-dollar coin
for general circulation?

In message <qjfd64dbrf5jpom7sdlmdgqff2n7co88pc@>, at 23:47:11 on
Sat, 28 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson <charles@ellson.> remarked:
>>>I get the impression that folks in Europe only get credit cards from
>>>the bank that they have checking/savings accounts with.
>>
>>I don't get that impression at all. Especially as many of the more
>>aggressively marketed cards are not associated with conventional banks.
>>
>>(eg Egg,Citigroup
>>
>>Goldfish,
>>
>Barclays Bank

Yes, it is now owned by Barclays, but previously by Lloyds TSB, and it
is not "associated" with Barclays current accounts, in the same way that
Barclaycard is. And especially not when originally launched 15 years ago
by the "Goldfish Bank".

(The same is true of Morgan Stanley Cards; launched independently,
transferred to Goldfish Bank, itself now owned by Barclays).

>>Capital One etc).

--
Roland Perry

On 10 Jun, 07:33, Martin Edwards <big_mart...m> wrote:
> John @ home wrote:
> > On Jun 9, 8:50 pm, 1506 <adrian_auerhud...m> wrote:
> >> On Jun 9, 9:33 am, nessuno2001 <nessuno2...@> wrote:> Hello everybody,
> >>> do you know how much was a ticket for the London underground in the
> >>> early '60s?
>
> > In preparation for decimalisation in 1971, London Transport moved all
> > fares to be multiples of 6d, which had an exact conversion at 2.5p.
> > And they were one of the last organisations to make widespread use of
> > the half (new) penny before its abolition.
>
> > In doing this, they were one of the few large organisations to be
> > completely transparent about decimalisation. Most took the opportunity
> > to introduce a hidden price increase, even other nationalised
> > transport bodies. Scottish Omnibuses increased the fare from my home
> > town to the nearest city from 2s 3d (just over 11p) to 13p.
>
> > John
>
> The day before the switch, the price of most beer was 3/- per pint. The
> day of the switch, it was the equivalent price of 15p. The day after it
> was 16p, a swingeing rise at the time, though it pales into
> insignificance today.
>
> --
> Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
> has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
> decisions. -From “Rollerball”

You were done - in affluent NW Hampshire beer averaged at 2/4d a pint
and went to 12p on decimalisation which equates to 28.8d. When I
started drinking about 12 years before D-Day I paid 1/3d pint for
Simmonds, 1/5d for Strongs and 1/6d for Marstons - that 3d difference
was a lot of money at those prices.
Pete Y

> 18 May 1965: "What is claimed to be the only robot railway ticket
> collector in the world began work at 7 a.m. at Acton Town Underground
> station, London. Automatic Bill, as the staff call the machine,
> swallows tickets like oysters, and coughs up the bad ones."
>
> Lemmy

So that was the origin of Oyster cards - I often wondered!

Pete Y