Overcrowding at Kings Cross St Pancras

Travelling on a FCC train on Monday morning, I overheard an announcement on
the train at 08:30 that the tunnel linking Kings Cross Thameslink with the
underground platforms was closed until 10:00 due to severe overcrowding.
Customers were advised to make their way outside by foot to Kings Cross (it
was raining cats and dogs at hte time). Around ten minutes later, I heard
an announcement on the underground that due to overcrowding, the entire
Kings Cross St Pancras station was closed, with no Circle/Hammersmith/Met
trains stopping there until further notice.

Yesterday, there was severe overcrowding at the same station at 17:45,
presumably due to the football at the Emirates Stadium. I managed to make
my way to the Victoria Line, which was becoming dangerously overcrowded -
part closure of the Piccadilly Line didn't help. As I squeezed onto a
northbound Victoria Line train, the tannoy advised "Due to a reported
emergency, can all customers please leave the station immediatley".

Stations like Kings Cross St Pancras can get very overcrowded at peak times
(even more so in Nov when Eurostar at FCC move stations), but is the entire
closure of the station a routine occurrence?

On Sep 27, 11:13 pm, "María" <noem...@xyznothing.me.uk> wrote:
> probably a daily commuter who has to put up with a shoddy service that
> treats its customers like trash but charges them a fortune, day after day.

Exactly. I had to renew my monthly oyster today - 127 quid. Bargain.
Not. Got on the train along with the other 200 odd people waiting on
the platform (presumably yet another rush hour cancellation) , train
went halfway to the next station and stopped. 5 minutes later we were
still stopped. Did the driver give us any info? Oh please. No doubt he
was too busy writing a fan letter to Uncle Bob and inquiring about
their next strike.

I wouldn't mind if this only happened occasionally , but it happens
every damn day at some point on the journey either going in or coming
home. And no I'm not exaggerating. I am however absolutely f*cking
sick of it.

B2003

On 28 Sep, 00:48, Mizter T <mizte...@> wrote:
> When trains are running OK then it's far less likely for it to get
> overcrowded and temporarily close.
>
> Rebuilding the whole complex including the platforms, which would mean
> the station had a bit more give before overcrowding would cause it to
> close, would be a massive and very expensive project. And closing when
> the station gets overcrowded is a sensible way to avert the risk of
> mishaps that could otherwse occur.
>
> Basically the best way to deal with potential overcrowding problems at
> stations such as KXSP is for LU to ensure that all their lines are
> working properly. The current modernisation plan's aim is to do just
> that.

How difficult would it be to "hollow out" the platform side walls to
enable another couple of metres of platform width? (ie. put in some
other kind of roof supports) Doing that and somehow separating the
northern line and the picc lines escaltor routes would go a long way
in cutting perceived overcrowding. Also making sure that all the
ticket windows are manned in peak times which I would have thought a
no brainer!

On Sep 28, 11:38 am, kytelly <kyte...@m> wrote:
> in cutting perceived overcrowding. Also making sure that all the
> ticket windows are manned in peak times which I would have thought a
> no brainer!

Yeah , but thats just Britain in general for you. It seems to be an
unwritten rule for all customer facing organisations that they must
not ever have enough staff to man all their checkouts/windows/
whatever. How many times have you walked into a bank or supermarket to
see only a third of the checkouts manned with huge queues on the ones
that are working. Its all to save money since theres plenty of people
out there looking for work who'd probably be quite happy to do the
job.

B2003

On 28 Sep, 11:38, kytelly <kyte...@m> wrote:
> On 28 Sep, 00:48, Mizter T <mizte...@> wrote:
>
> > When trains are running OK then it's far less likely for it to get
> > overcrowded and temporarily close.
>
> > Rebuilding the whole complex including the platforms, which would mean
> > the station had a bit more give before overcrowding would cause it to
> > close, would be a massive and very expensive project. And closing when
> > the station gets overcrowded is a sensible way to avert the risk of
> > mishaps that could otherwse occur.
>
> > Basically the best way to deal with potential overcrowding problems at
> > stations such as KXSP is for LU to ensure that all their lines are
> > working properly. The current modernisation plan's aim is to do just
> > that.
>
> How difficult would it be to "hollow out" the platform side walls to
> enable another couple of metres of platform width? (ie. put in some
> other kind of roof supports) Doing that and somehow separating the
> northern line and the picc lines escaltor routes would go a long way
> in cutting perceived overcrowding. Also making sure that all the
> ticket windows are manned in peak times which I would have thought a
> no brainer!

I guess anything is possible - but it'd probably be spectacularly
expensive! One thing to say is that problems of overcrowding at such
stations does justify the decision made when designing the Jubilee
Line extension that each new station would be very spacious.

Regarding the ticket windows - yes, having them all open would be
useful! I'm not sure how much queueing problems outside the gateline/
fare-paid area contributes to the overcrowding problem that leads to
the station being closed.

One thing that would be really useful would be for TfL/LU to have a
far greater presence on the concourses of mainline stations. Yes,
there's a Travel Information Centre at Victoria, Euston and Liverpool
Street but they're all too small. There should be more (including one
at KX and at St Pancras) and they should be far larger. If they were
signed correctly they could scoop up an awful lot of the confused
tourists who need to have a more attentive service and more time spent
with them, who currently clog up the concourses waiting for tickets at
these stations.

On 28 Sep, 12:40, Boltar <boltar2....uk> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 11:38 am, kytelly <kyte...@m> wrote:
>
> > in cutting perceived overcrowding. Also making sure that all the
> > ticket windows are manned in peak times which I would have thought a
> > no brainer!
>
> Yeah , but thats just Britain in general for you. It seems to be an
> unwritten rule for all customer facing organisations that they must
> not ever have enough staff to man all their checkouts/windows/
> whatever. How many times have you walked into a bank or supermarket to
> see only a third of the checkouts manned with huge queues on the ones
> that are working. Its all to save money since theres plenty of people
> out there looking for work who'd probably be quite happy to do the
> job.
>
> B2003


The critical question is whether consumers are prepared to pay up for
a higher level of service. Many commercial organisations would appear
to judge that they are not.

On Sep 28, 2:55 pm, Mizter T <mizte...@> wrote:
> You're evidence that "says it all" is hardly very precise. (a) You've
> an "apparent" claim regarding the most expensive metro, yet don't back
> it up with evidence. (b) Whilst 5+ minutes wait in central London at

My latest monthly travelcard was 127 quid (minus the not
inconsiderable number of refund vouchers I'd received). I visited Kiev
last month, a monthly travelcard for the whole system there was the
equivalent of 3 quid. Even taking into account lower wages there
(probably a 5th to 10th of the UK) its still bloody cheap. Paris is
cheap too and so is NYC though I can't remember the exact costs.

> rush hour is far from ideal it's also far from the norm - the

BS. Do you ever travel in the rush hour? Its *very* often the norm on
the lines I use - Circle/Met , Northern and Piccadilly. This morning
there were probably 100 people waiting on the platform because of yet
another cancellation and then once the train had arrived we went
halfway to the next station and stopped for 3 or 4 minutes. No
information from Mr Driver of course , probably too busy writing a fan
letter to Uncle Bob.

> performance data would not back up your claim that it's "farcical".
>
> Your case is far from proven.

I don't need to prove it to anyone , I use the system every day. My
own personal experience is enough for me.

B2003

On Sep 28, 2:57 pm, Mizter T <mizte...@> wrote:
> The critical question is whether consumers are prepared to pay up for
> a higher level of service. Many commercial organisations would appear
> to judge that they are not

Then why do they bother paying for facilities they don't use?

B2003