Northern line near collision

On 17 Jun, 09:15, Chris Tolley <c...@supanet.com> wrote:
> employees will have good files, and one blemish shouldn't necessarily
> lead to that file being closed.

If he'd been going a bit faster and had a collision and killed
himself, the other driver and possibly some passengers too, would you
still just consider it a "blemish"? And don't say "well he didn't".
That was down to pure luck the other train had stopped, not any action
on his part.

B2003

On 17 Jun, 15:36, Boltar <boltar2....uk> wrote:
> On 17 Jun, 09:15, Chris Tolley <c...@supanet.com> wrote:

> If he'd been going a bit faster and had a collision and killed
> himself, the other driver and possibly some passengers too, would you
> still just consider it a "blemish"? And don't say "well he didn't".
> That was down to pure luck the other train had stopped, not any action
> on his part.

I'd hardly call the fact that a train was standing at a signal showing
a red aspect due to the section ahead being occupied "pure luck".

On Jun 17, 11:30 pm, "Clive D. W. Feather" <c...@on-the-
train.> wrote:
> In article <1181853429.837371.141...@q19g2000prn. .com>,
> chunky munky <chunky_munky...@.uk> writes
>
> >Stations without station starters are Croxley (Southbound) and
> >Chesham, some others do have them a fair way out of the platform.
>
> Chesham surprises me. After all, Mill Hill East has a starter.



It must be pretty difficult for there to be a train in front in either
case (or for the train in the station to have got past it on the way
in). If there's one coming the other way, there's a bigger problem
than just the train in the station leaving.

On 17 Jun, 16:24, kevall...@holdthefrontpage.co.uk wrote:
> On 17 Jun, 15:36, Boltar <boltar2....uk> wrote:
>
> > On 17 Jun, 09:15, Chris Tolley <c...@supanet.com> wrote:
> > If he'd been going a bit faster and had a collision and killed
> > himself, the other driver and possibly some passengers too, would you
> > still just consider it a "blemish"? And don't say "well he didn't".
> > That was down to pure luck the other train had stopped, not any action
> > on his part.
>
> I'd hardly call the fact that a train was standing at a signal showing
> a red aspect due to the section ahead being occupied "pure luck".

If that stopped train had been running a bit late the train from
camden could have reached that signal before the other driver who
would not have been stopped at the signal before because at that time
the section in front *wasn't* occupied. I'll let you work out the
rest.

B2003

On 15 Jun, 07:33, "Clive D. W. Feather" <c...@on-the-
train.> wrote:
> In article <1181858881.327258.248...@i38g2000prf. .com>,
> thomas_cr....uk writes
>
> >> Um, no signal *does* mean green. Unlit signal - not the same thing -
> >> means red.
> >Does it?
> >No signal when there should be one, as you pointed out = unlit signal
> >= red.
>
> I'll have to think about this. There is no "where there should be one"
> in railway signalling, but if a driver's route knowledge leads him to
> think that there should be a signal at some landmark (in this case, the
> headwall) then he should treat its absence as a danger.

There is on the underground. LU's signalling standards state that
every platform shall be provided with a platform starting signal. The
only locations that I'm aware of which are not compliant are Chesham,
Croxley SB and Kensington Olympia.

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:38:25 -0700, thomas_crame.uk wrote:

>On 15 Jun, 07:33, "Clive D. W. Feather" <c...@on-the-
>train.> wrote:
>> In article <1181858881.327258.248...@i38g2000prf. .com>,
>> thomas_cr....uk writes
>>
>> >> Um, no signal *does* mean green. Unlit signal - not the same thing -
>> >> means red.
>> >Does it?
>> >No signal when there should be one, as you pointed out = unlit signal
>> >= red.
>>
>> I'll have to think about this. There is no "where there should be one"
>> in railway signalling, but if a driver's route knowledge leads him to
>> think that there should be a signal at some landmark (in this case, the
>> headwall) then he should treat its absence as a danger.
>
>There is on the underground. LU's signalling standards state that
>every platform shall be provided with a platform starting signal. The
>only locations that I'm aware of which are not compliant are Chesham,
>Croxley SB and Kensington Olympia.

Aren't both these operated as though they were long sidings?

There was an accident in the USA a few years ago. Because of the
inertia of the heavy freight trains the distant is a long way before
the stop signal. But in this case there was a platform stop between
them. A commuter train stopped there and sped off because the engineer
forgot that the distant was at yellow, running through the stop signal
protecting a junction with the main line and colliding head on with an
Amtrak train.

There are near collisions everyday as the trains are only a few feet
apart when passing !

Nears dont count, its only the ones where people get mangled and
Netowork Rail lose their bonus tha tcount.

On 18 Jun, 15:52, Christopher A.Lee <c...@> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:38:25 -0700, thomas_cr....uk wrote:
> >On 15 Jun, 07:33, "Clive D. W. Feather" <c...@on-the-
> >train.> wrote:
> >> In article <1181858881.327258.248...@i38g2000prf. .com>,
> >> thomas_cr....uk writes
>
> >> >> Um, no signal *does* mean green. Unlit signal - not the same thing -
> >> >> means red.
> >> >Does it?
> >> >No signal when there should be one, as you pointed out = unlit signal
> >> >= red.
>
> >> I'll have to think about this. There is no "where there should be one"
> >> in railway signalling, but if a driver's route knowledge leads him to
> >> think that there should be a signal at some landmark (in this case, the
> >> headwall) then he should treat its absence as a danger.
>
> >There is on the underground. LU's signalling standards state that
> >every platform shall be provided with a platform starting signal. The
> >only locations that I'm aware of which are not compliant are Chesham,
> >Croxley SB and Kensington Olympia.
>
> Aren't both these operated as though they were long sidings?

Effectively, yes.

There is a home signal at Chesham, but it's associated with the speed
control more than anything else.
Likewise, there are only a handful (IIRC 2 or 3) of track circuits
tere, the main part of the branch back to Chalfont being catered for
by axle counters.