Different approach to smart card travel

All the OV chipcard stuff so far has been a big disaster. They're now
replacing the gates in Rotterdam for a SECOND time, and the system
isn't even working yet. The gates are incredibly slow, I wonder why
they don't just use the same type as in London or another system's
that's already proved itself.
Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and
will probably lead to larger dwell times.
I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train,
switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But
instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of
transport.

Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't
been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute
etc.) lately.

sweek wrote:
> The gates are incredibly slow, I wonder why
> they don't just use the same type as in London or another system's
> that's already proved itself.

Maybe they are--the gates at King's Cross St. Pancras Underground that is.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Feb 1, 1:25 pm, "sweek" <jeroen.kemper...@> wrote:

> Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and
> will probably lead to larger dwell times.

Doesn't in Singapore. Indeed, I'd recommend it as a good solution for
a UK ITSO smartcard, because it would allow a smartcard to be
implemented with no fare structure change at all, which would be
rather useful where there are a multitude of private bus companies
with different fare levels.

> I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train,
> switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But
> instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of
> transport.

Does it charge two "base tariffs" for two journeys, or is there an
interchange discount? If it charges two "base tariffs" it's far worse
than the Strippenkaart, which allows unlimited free changes of vehicle/
mode.

> Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't
> been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute
> etc.) lately.

And Randstadrail, which has been an unmitigated, British-style
disaster. Given that the classic tram rail and the Alstom LRVs appear
to be totally incompatible (two more derailments on the 3 route last
week, not on steeply-superelevated track unlike previous problems) I
fail to see how it can ever run.

Neil

I think it does charge two base fares, and you can only use a
strippenkaart on trains within Amsterdam. I don't think you're allowed
to in any other city.
And yes, Randstadrail, Utrechtboog, Veolia... I don't know what it is
that's been going so awful lately.

On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod <cmy...@bigfoot.comREMOVE> wrote:
> The Dutch version of Oyster (OV-chip) is being pushed harder and
> harder with the plan to have it as the only way to pay by 2009. Just
> heard it'll work on a 11cent/km basis, obliterating the current zone
> scheme which obviously will affect people differently depending on
> where they start/finish in the zones (zones being like cellphone ones,
> not ringed like London's Westend centric one).
>
> The card to push will be the "autoreload" version where you never need
> to add dosh manually to it ever again. Which, as an interviewee said,
> makes price rises easier!
>
> Interesting that they charge on distance which is the opposite to the
> expanded NR component of Oyster in S. London where zoning will be
> used.
>
> My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I
> prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely
> the rest are honest!).
>
All stations? That's quite a commitment. In the UK, gates need to have
human oversight for Heath and Safety rules. This doesn't seem to be
the case in Paris which obviously has a different set of rules. But
gating the whole NL network would be incredibly expensive.

alexterrell wrote:
> On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod <cmy...@bigfoot.comREMOVE> wrote:
[...]
>> My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated
>> access. I prefer the honour system (can't trust those
>> Amsterdammers but surely the rest are honest!).
>>
> All stations? That's quite a commitment. In the UK, gates need to
> have human oversight for Heath and Safety rules. This doesn't seem
> to be the case in Paris which obviously has a different set of
> rules.

If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the
exits, so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that
people can get out of a station. But you may well be right about health
& safety rules being less stringent in France.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On the other hand, I get the feeling about 80% of the people who don't
have an OV-Student card do faredodge.

On Feb 2, 11:49 am, "sweek" <jeroen.kemper...@> wrote:
> On the other hand, I get the feeling about 80% of the people who don't
> have an OV-Student card do faredodge.

I certainly do not have that impression, at least in Den Haag. I'd
guess the figure is around 20% on trams, and somewhere around zero on
buses as you're checked and stamped on boarding.

Neil

On Feb 2, 3:03 pm, Colum Mylod <cmy...@bigfoot.comREMOVE> wrote:

> However one other NL issue that sticks: why don't train kiosks sell
> Strippenkaarts? Integrated public transport, unintegrated tickets.

This is a bugbear - but at every station that's big enough to have a
ticket office there's usually a Kiosk (drinks, snacks etc), all of
which *do* sell Strippenkaarten.

> And
> don't start me on the chip-bloody-knip.

It's a good idea that could really do with being rolled out throughout
Europe. Until it is, however, I find it quite annoying that anywhere
is allowed to *only* accept it.

Neil

I'm sorry, I forgot to add "in Rotterdam" to that post. In Rotterdam
no one really seems to bother with tickets on the metro.