TfL give up on FCC

At Moorgate station this evening I noticed that TfL have eventually got
around to updating the signs that used to point to the "Thameslink" and
"WAGN" platforms.

The former are now simply signed as "Trains to Bedford", the latter as
"Trains to Stevenage". All reference to Thameslink or WAGN has gone.
There is no reference to First Capital Connect.

At Farringdon a few minutes later I also noticed that the signs to
"Thameslink" have been replaced by ones that now simply say "National
Rail".

PaulO

Paul Oter wrote:
> At Moorgate station this evening I noticed that TfL have eventually
> got around to updating the signs that used to point to the
> "Thameslink" and "WAGN" platforms.
>
> The former are now simply signed as "Trains to Bedford", the latter as
> "Trains to Stevenage". All reference to Thameslink or WAGN has gone.
> There is no reference to First Capital Connect.
>
> At Farringdon a few minutes later I also noticed that the signs to
> "Thameslink" have been replaced by ones that now simply say "National
> Rail".

Quite right too. With these ridiculous short seven-year franchises it makes
no sense to waste money on operator-specific signage that needs to be
replaced if the franchisee changes.

Peter Lawrence wrote:

> Bit isn't the (Bedford) line, as opposed to the TOC, still called
> Thameslink, even by FCC?? Why do they have to change anything?

It's First Capital Connect Thameslink branch and Great Northern branch,
although First will use FCC Thameslink or FCC Great Northern / FCC GN
too. It does seem a bit random, I must admit.

Once people are used to the new name, I hope First will copy FCC to the
signs at Kings Cross (instead of First Cap Connect, which is still too
long for anything but 'on time' messages).

TfL should be saying 'National Rail' services on all stations with an
interchange. It would certainly make more sense to irregular
travellers/tourists who don't really want or need to know station X is
for Virgin, Y for GNER and Z for First Great Western etc. Anyone who
does care will know anyway.

Jonathan

Jonathan Morris wrote:

> TfL should be saying 'National Rail' services on all stations with an
> interchange. It would certainly make more sense to irregular
> travellers/tourists who don't really want or need to know station X is
> for Virgin, Y for GNER and Z for First Great Western etc. Anyone who
> does care will know anyway.

Simply saying "National Rail" would not be very helpful at Moorgate,
since National Rail trains on the GN route etc leave from a completely
different part of the station from National Rail trains on the TL
route.

Are there any other LU stations where National Rail services on
different routes leave from different parts of the LU station?

PaulO

Jonathan Morris wrote:

> Once people are used to the new name, I hope First will copy FCC to the
> signs at Kings Cross (instead of First Cap Connect, which is still too
> long for anything but 'on time' messages).

Yes but "King's Cross FCC" sounds naff. And as for "City FCC" it sounds more
like a football club than anything else!

> TfL should be saying 'National Rail' services on all stations with an
> interchange. It would certainly make more sense to irregular
> travellers/tourists who don't really want or need to know station X is
> for Virgin, Y for GNER and Z for First Great Western etc. Anyone who
> does care will know anyway.

I disagree - a lot of people find the "National Rail services" meaningless.
And TfL don't just say "other tube lines" for their own services do they?

On 22 Aug 2006 12:57:06 -0700, "Paul Oter" <paul.oter@>
wrote:

>Are there any other LU stations where National Rail services on
>different routes leave from different parts of the LU station?

Highbury and Islington, West Ham, Stratford, Kings Cross, Paddington
(stretching the definition here!).
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
> Jonathan Morris wrote:
>
> > Once people are used to the new name, I hope First will copy FCC to the
> > signs at Kings Cross (instead of First Cap Connect, which is still too
> > long for anything but 'on time' messages).
>
> Yes but "King's Cross FCC" sounds naff.

It would also be ambigous. Would "King's Cross FCC" mean the former
Thameslink station or the mainline station? Both have FCC trains (and
if you're on the Piccadilly or Victoria platforms they involve walking
in opposite directions).

Platforms 9/10/11 in Pancras Road have as much claim to be called
King's Cross First Capital Connect as platforms A and B in Pentonville
Road do.

PaulO

Dave Arquati wrote:
> Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
>> Jonathan Morris wrote:

>>> TfL should be saying 'National Rail' services on all stations
>>> with an interchange. It would certainly make more sense to
>>> irregular travellers/tourists who don't really want or need to
>>> know station X is for Virgin, Y for GNER and Z for First Great
>>> Western etc. Anyone who does care will know anyway.
>>
>> I disagree - a lot of people find the "National Rail services"
>> meaningless.

These are presumably the people who after more than 10 years still think
it's "British Rail". I bet most of them don't know the TOC names
either.

>> And TfL don't just say "other tube lines" for their own services do
>> they?
>
> I'd agree with that. It might be a bit difficult at termini with a
> very wide range of services like Victoria, but it would certainly help
> to
> highlight particular services like airport trains (e.g. "change
> here for National Rail services, including trains to Gatwick").

One current example of indicating airport services is distinctly
unhelpful. The District Line diagrams in the D-stock trains show Ealing
Broadway as an interchange for "trains to Heathrow", thus encouraging LU
customers to go there and wait for the half-hourly Heathrow Connect
service, paying (not to LU) either an extra £6 for the privilege, or £6
+ penalty fare if they try to use a Z1-6 Travelcard on HC. The
interchange with the Piccadilly at Acton Town, where they should not
need to wait more than 5 minutes for a Heathrow train, is not shown as a
route to Heathrow.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Fig wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:58:00 +0100, Richard J.
> <rjnews@blueukder.co.yon> wrote:
>
>> One current example of indicating airport services is distinctly
>> unhelpful. The District Line diagrams in the D-stock trains show
>> Ealing Broadway as an interchange for "trains to Heathrow", thus
>> encouraging LU customers to go there and wait for the half-hourly
>> Heathrow Connect service, paying (not to LU) either an extra £6
>> for the privilege, or £6 + penalty fare if they try to use a Z1-6
>> Travelcard on HC. The interchange with the Piccadilly at Acton
>> Town, where they should not need to wait more than 5 minutes for a
>> Heathrow train, is not shown as a route to Heathrow.
>
> That's ridiculous, and downright mean!
> Is there any way of lobbying LUL to change it? Should be fairly
> cheap and easy with those little sticker thingies they use to amend
> the line diagrams.

I've sent a complaint using the form on the LU website.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Fig wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:58:00 +0100, Richard J. <rjnews@blueukder.co.yon>
> wrote:
>
> > One current example of indicating airport services is distinctly
> > unhelpful. The District Line diagrams in the D-stock trains show Ealing
> > Broadway as an interchange for "trains to Heathrow", thus encouraging LU
> > customers to go there and wait for the half-hourly Heathrow Connect
> > service, paying (not to LU) either an extra £6 for the privilege, or £6
> > + penalty fare if they try to use a Z1-6 Travelcard on HC. The
> > interchange with the Piccadilly at Acton Town, where they should not
> > need to wait more than 5 minutes for a Heathrow train, is not shown as a
> > route to Heathrow.
>
> That's ridiculous, and downright mean!
> Is there any way of lobbying LUL to change it? Should be fairly cheap and
> easy with those little sticker thingies they use to amend the line
> diagrams.

Little sticky thingies would be treating the symptoms rather than the
cause of the Ealing Broadway problem which is that Heathrow should be
included in the Z1-6 area using HC connect. Ken Livingstone and TfL
should institute congestion charging around Heathrow
and integrate the Heatrow rail link into the London rail system. I am
only surprised that as a quid pro quo for future development at
Heathrow that the Government has not insisted on the handover of the
railway from Airport Junction to Network Rail, with appropriate
compensation of course for the unamortised construction costs. After
all Heathrow creates masive congestion and environmental impact in its
own right. I don't have a problem with a premium service for passengers
who wish to pay for the convenience. Incidently will Z1-6 cards be
valid on Crossrail and where will the validity run to. Has the House of
Commons comittee or TfL said anything about this yet?