Underground Train Question / 1986 Prorotype Stock

soniakostas@ (Soniakostas) wrote in message news:<20041025181520.23043.00002555@mb-m12.>...
> Hi i have a few qurstions to ask regarding to the underground trains that
> always made me wonder.
>
> 1) Firstly when a train goes does the first car pull and the last one push ?
> otherwise how just one car can pull so many other cards same size as itself ?
> In the rasilway trains one carriage is pulling and the last is pushing i was
> wondering if the same happens to the underground trains.

No. Usually roughly every 2nd car has its own motors but on the 1992 stock
on the central line every car has motors.

> Did these trains ever carried passengers or they just used them to test the
> engineering of the forthcoming trains ? if thats what they were used for
> howcome they were completely furnished inside with seats maps and everything ?

AFAIK they were prototype stock for the 92 stock now running on the central
line and they were full working trains designed to test out passenger
reaction to them. LUL didn't bother with this approach with the new Jubilee
and Northern line trains however, they just introduced the trains and there
was no passenger feedback in the design process mores the pity.

>
> Lastly were these prototype trains in service long andf how many were created
> if anyone knows

3 i think but don't hold me to that.

B2003

In message <71f9a8b1.0410260556.33cc5ed@com> , Boltar
<boltar2003.uk> writes
>
>No. Usually roughly every 2nd car has its own motors but on the 1992
>stock on the central line every car has motors.
It's a long time since I worked on the tube, but both "38" and "62"
stock had six out of eight cars as motor cars( that is driving the
train) whilst the non motor cars had the compressors underneath them.
Cars with driving facilities were usually two a train, making two
individual sets driven(operated)from the front.
--
Clive.

In article <xg95VVFG8lfBFwTU@yewbank.>,
clive@yewbank. (Clive Coleman) wrote:

> In message <71f9a8b1.0410260556.33cc5ed@com> , Boltar
> <boltar2003.uk> writes
> >
> >No. Usually roughly every 2nd car has its own motors but on the 1992
> >stock on the central line every car has motors.
> It's a long time since I worked on the tube, but both "38" and "62"
> stock had six out of eight cars as motor cars( that is driving the
> train) whilst the non motor cars had the compressors underneath them.
> Cars with driving facilities were usually two a train, making two
> individual sets driven(operated)from the front.

From the 1938 TS up to the 1962 stock there were 2 trailers per 7 or 8 car
train with one motor per motor bogie.

The 1967 and subsequent stocks had two motors per motor bogie so a
slightly higher trailer car ratio, four out of eight in 1967 stock, three
out of seven in 1972 stock (and 1996 stock too when it is extended to
seven cars) and two out of six in other stocks apart from 1992 stock in
which every axle is motored.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article <0h20o0pk6sok8qd1h78lid58fr2nt2f2m2@>,
aooy65@dsl.pipex.com (Paul Corfield) wrote:

> Within a "train" of underground carriages you will typically get two
> units attached to each other. On some lines each unit has 4 cars - e.g.
> the Victoria and Metropolitan Lines have 8 car trains while on others
> you get a mix of 4 cars and 3 cars to give a 7 car train (Piccadilly
> Line or Circle / Hammersmith and City)

Piccadilly and Circle trains are all 6 cars. Piccadilly trains are made up
of two 3 car units while Circle trains are three 2 car units. The Bakerloo
has the only 7 car trains at present though the Jubilee is planning to
extend its trains from 6 to 7 cars in the next year or so.

> Depending on the configuration of the train some carriages have motors
> (what you term an engine) and others don't have any - called trailer
> cars. A bit like an articulated lorry where the front bit has the
> engine and the back bit - the trailer - carries whatever is being
> transported from a to be.

A further distinction used to be the number of motors per bogie but all
modern stock has two.

> Now I might get shot down in flames from one of our resident drivers or
> engineers here but one way to tell which is which is to look at a train
> on the opposite track and see which wheels have the "shoe" attached to
> pick up the electric power. If a carriage has shoes then it is a motor
> car, if there are no shoes then it is a trailer car. The best lines to
> see this on are the sub surface lines like the Met or District lines
> because there are two tracks side by side.

That will confuse you with some stocks, most notably the Central Line
stock where every axle is motored and the 8 car trains are made up of 2
car units of three types.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Paul Corfield" <aooy65@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:0h20o0pk6sok8qd1h78lid58fr2nt2f2m2@...
> On 25 Oct 2004 22:15:20 GMT, soniakostas@ (Soniakostas) wrote:
>
>>Hi i have a few qurstions to ask regarding to the underground trains that
>>always made me wonder.
>>
>>1) Firstly when a train goes does the first car pull and the last one push
>>?
>>otherwise how just one car can pull so many other cards same size as
>>itself ?
>>In the rasilway trains one carriage is pulling and the last is pushing i
>>was
>>wondering if the same happens to the underground trains.
>
> Within a "train" of underground carriages you will typically get two
> units attached to each other. On some lines each unit has 4 cars - e.g.
> the Victoria and Metropolitan Lines have 8 car trains while on others
> you get a mix of 4 cars and 3 cars to give a 7 car train (Piccadilly
> Line or Circle / Hammersmith and City)
>
> Depending on the configuration of the train some carriages have motors
> (what you term an engine) and others don't have any - called trailer
> cars. A bit like an articulated lorry where the front bit has the
> engine and the back bit - the trailer - carries whatever is being
> transported from a to be.
>
> Now I might get shot down in flames from one of our resident drivers or
> engineers here but one way to tell which is which is to look at a train
> on the opposite track and see which wheels have the "shoe" attached to
> pick up the electric power. If a carriage has shoes then it is a motor
> car, if there are no shoes then it is a trailer car. The best lines to
> see this on are the sub surface lines like the Met or District lines
> because there are two tracks side by side.
>

Your method of indentifying motor and non-motor cars is ok. However the
Piccadilly has 6 car trains, four motor cars and two trailers the first,
third, fourth and sixth cars being the motors. Most of the "middle" motor
cars have a limited driving position to allow movements in depot when
uncoupled. A few have full cabs to allow then to be attached at either end
of another unit to provide flexibility when a unit has to be withdrawn for
maintenance or repairs.

The Circle, the Hammersmith & City and the District Edgware Rd-Wimbledon
service use the same train. The are made up of three x two car units. The
outer cars are motors, the next cars are trailers whereas the middle two
cars can be either way round but one will be a motor and one a trailer.

District "main line" trains are of the same configuration as those on the
Piccadilly although they are obviously of a different design.

Metropolitan trains are of two four car units comprising a motor, two
trailers and a motor each.

Sorry not familar with the stocks on other lines.

Hi and thanks for all the replies !

I found it a bit stranghe though and very costly for the underground to
actually built 3 trains for the public to choose.

Usually companies (like Bus companies) choose the model themselevs then they
buy few dozens of them they wopuldnt actually built 3 different busses and then
get rid of them

I dont know just sounds abit strange and indeed for the rest of the new trains
of the underground (waterloo/northern) they didnt have any prototype trains

you guys agree with me ?

cheers

In message <krFmiUYgYeiBFwIf@romana.davros.org>, Clive D. W. Feather
<clive@on-the-train.> writes
>
>Memory says that traction bus lines aren't permitted on underground
>lines (as opposed to lines with the occasional tunnels).
That's my understanding also.
--
Clive.