ADF Required

When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

Ted Timmons wrote:
> When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
> or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
> It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
> missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
> missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

Is there an overlay GPS approach to that runway?

Ted Timmons wrote:
> When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
> or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
> It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
> missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
> missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

No reason you can't use a GPS for this approach.

"Ted Timmons" <Glider_Guiderm> wrote in message news:<l1QZb.79426$%72.37104@twister.nyroc.>. ..
> When an approach specifies ADF REQUIRED (as in Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4
> or VOR RWY 4) is there any legal way to fly the approach without an ADF?
> It appears to me that the only reason for the ADF requirement is for the
> missed approach. Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
> missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?

I am not sure how you decided that the ADF is required only for the
missed approach. The AVN NDB serves as the IAF and the holding fix. It
is required in order to fly the feeder route from FAULT intersection.
AVN is also the fix from which the MSA and the 10-NM approach area are
determined. Unless I am looking at the wrong approach chart, it seems
to me that you need the ADF in order to fly this approach.

"Peter R." wrote:

He told me what you stated above. If you ask ATC for alternate missed

> approach instructions, you can "legally" fly the approach without an
> ADF.

Your examiner is wrong. ATC cannot waive Part 97. But, you can substitute an
IFR-certified GPS for the ADF because Flight Standards has issued a national policy
letter permitting that.

And, most IAPs do not have a non-radar alternate missed approach proceddure. It's
either the published missed or radar vectors.

"Peter R." wrote:

>
> Now that I think of it, I recall the chief CFI at my school mentioned he
> was going to talk to the DE about GPS substitution, as it appeared the
> DE did not have his facts entirely correct. Then again, this was about
> a year ago.

The FAA authorized that substitution about 4 years ago.

Actually, failure of the ADF was one the reasons I installed a Garmin 430 in
my plane. The GPS can substitute for an ADF or DME.

Ted Timmons wrote:

> If I understood your response correctly, the approach may not be flown
> without having either an ADF or an IFR-certified GPS.
>
> It seems to me like very poor planning to design approaches such as the two
> I previously mentioned (Rochester, NY KROC ILS RWY 4 or VOR RWY 4). A
> pilot could have a day (1,000 foot ceiling) with an extremely low
> probability of needing to execute the missed and not be able to "legally"
> fly the approach if the ADF was inop.
>
> Has anyone tried to get an approach modified, e.g., get a missed approach
> procedure changed to eliminate the ADF requirement?

They don't do that unless other facilities or traffic flow won't permit use of
a VOR facility or fix. Having said that, with IFR GPS it is no big deal any
longer.

> Now that's a great question. I suppose ATC can override anything really.
> But then, what do you do in case of lost comm? You can't fly the
> published missed. If you're an AOPA member, call up there help line.
> They know or can find out just about anything about this stuff.
>

Not anything. They cannot construct a non-radar missed approach procedure, nor
can they waive notes on an approach chart (those are regulatory). But, where
they have radar they can give you a vectored missed approach, but only once
you're talking to them.

Scott wrote:

>>Can the approach be flown leagally by requesting alternate
>>missed approach instructions that don't require and ADF?
>
>
> Now that's a great question. I suppose ATC can override anything really.

There is no situation where the plate says ADF required that GPS cannot
substitute. And yes ATC can come up with alternate missed instructions.


> But then, what do you do in case of lost comm? You can't fly the
> published missed.

Why not? Just go to the NDB and hold using the GPS. That's not even
difficult.